Mostly Technical

Ian Landsman (00:01.769)
Hello?

Aaron (00:03.182)
Hello Mr. Landsman, how we doin'?

Ian Landsman (00:05.705)
back oh my gosh it's been a rough month crazy all kinds of stuff going on finishing it here with a cold that has wrecked my whole house so i haven't slept in a week did anybody hear some coughing yeah basically

Aaron (00:18.478)
Haven't slept in a week. We gotta get you a chili pad, man.

Ian Landsman (00:23.881)
Yeah, maybe that's it. I don't know. This was a congestiony sort of situation. So I don't know if the chili, if the chili pad is that good that it fixes that. Yeah, that's, that's, that's quite a recommendation. Um, but yeah, so we're back. Uh, hold it together as long as I can here. Um, I did want to start out just by once again, thanking Jeffrey way of Lara cast. Let me just bring that up on the screen. Um, here we go. Uh,

Aaron (00:28.942)
Chili pad fixes all, yeah.

Yeah.

Ian Landsman (00:53.353)
Thanks so much to Laracast for sponsoring the show. If you haven't checked out Laracast, definitely do that. The best resource out there for Laravel and really just web development in general, obviously all the courses they have there, new Laravel 11 course. So yeah, obviously we're both lifetime members. The whole hardly recommend it. So definitely check out Laracast. Thanks so much to Jeffrey for continuing to sponsor the show and.

Definitely check it out if you haven't yet because it is the best resource out there. So thank you to Jeffrey.

Okay. All right. So it's been a couple of weeks here. We got a lot of stuff to cover. What did you think about the eclipse? You were right in the path, right?

Aaron (01:36.43)
We got a lot to cover.

Aaron (01:42.094)
was right in the path. So we were also, maybe like a year ago, we were on the partial path. So a year ago, I saw a almost total eclipse. And I was like, yeah, that's kind of cool. Yeah, who cares? Yeah. I'll tell you what, the full, the total eclipse, completely different. Just, just amazing.

Ian Landsman (01:51.945)
Okay.

Ian Landsman (01:58.153)
That's what I got this time. Yeah. It was like 94 % or something. Yeah. It was cool.

Ian Landsman (02:07.241)
That's what I figured. We -

Aaron (02:11.278)
Totally worth it. I mean, I was already here, so I don't know, you know, people did travel, but I think the next one that happens in the US, I will definitely travel and take the kids to, if they're still kids, if they're grown adults, you know, hopefully they'll join me. Yeah, 20 years, wow. Yeah, hopefully they'll take me in my wheelchair there. But yeah, it was crazy. It was so awesome. We just walked right outside our front door, sat in our neighbor's yard, and...

Ian Landsman (02:11.593)
Oui.

Ian Landsman (02:25.833)
20 years, so 20 years.

Hehehehe

Ian Landsman (02:35.369)
Yeah.

Aaron (02:39.502)
you know, laid in the grass and watched it happen. It was amazing. Totally worth it.

Ian Landsman (02:43.017)
We, we thought about going traveling a couple hours to get in the total clips and we didn't do it and we were all sick. And so whatever ended up being just wouldn't have worked. But yeah, it was like a little, like the, the looking at the sun is cool. It's like this little sliver, but it's like, Oh, you look around you and it's still like amazingly daylight out. Like it's not like, Oh, it's dark in the middle of the day. It's like, yeah, maybe some clouds went overhead. It's like incredible how powerful 6 % of the sun is still plenty of sunlight. So yeah, so it wasn't the full thing.

Aaron (03:00.174)
It's still, yeah.

Aaron (03:08.91)
Yeah. Yeah, it was it was super cool. My we checked we checked hotel prices in Dallas just for giggles and there's one hotel that's like $500 a night but the night of the eclipse it was $5 ,000 a night. Yeah. So

Ian Landsman (03:25.097)
Wow. It did seem like people were traveling, but that's kind of, I mean, since you can go anywhere on the path, it's like kind of crazy to have so much demand just in Dallas like that, but wow.

Aaron (03:36.366)
Yeah, yeah, super fun. Totally worth it. Fundamentally different. No, they were in school. And I asked him, I asked him when I dropped him, I think I dropped him off that day, I asked the teacher, I was like, are the kids gonna go outside? And they're like, no, we don't have glasses. And I said, good, I don't want my two year olds looking up at the sun. Like, I just don't want them to learn that you're supposed to do that.

Ian Landsman (03:40.233)
Did the kids get it? The older kids get it?

Alright, so just you and the wife.

Ian Landsman (03:54.857)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (04:01.161)
They're a little, yeah. Yeah. They're a little small for understanding the distinction or did you just mess up, pull their glasses down quick and just to look at it. And yeah, so got enough going on. You don't need another, another thing with a blinded child or something. Yeah. Let's pass on that.

Aaron (04:06.734)
Yeah.

Yeah, look directly into the sun. Yeah, that doesn't seem good.

Aaron (04:17.71)
No, I don't need temporarily blind children, yeah.

Yeah.

Ian Landsman (04:24.521)
Oh man, what else has been going on? You have so much stuff. You've had a thousand tweets, you've been on a million podcasts, all kinds of stuff. I don't know if there's any, any stuff we want to talk about. Yeah, there's been so much going on.

Aaron (04:30.03)
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. A thousand tweets and a million podcasts. That's just no, that's not right. I was on a few podcasts. And I guess I have been tweeting more, huh? Am I tweeting more? I think I might be.

Ian Landsman (04:38.537)
Yeah, you were everywhere.

Ian Landsman (04:44.617)
I feel like it. I feel like they're more like, they're catching on. Like everything you tweet is really like hitting like you're in the zone. You're in the zone right now. Or the algorithm is like pushing you hard to like, Oh, that Aaron Francis, whatever he says, let's just like push it. There's something, there's something going on.

Aaron (04:46.19)
It used to -

Aaron (04:50.03)
Man, I do feel like they're catching more. I don't know what it is. I know! I gotta ride this, man.

Aaron (05:01.358)
It's great. There's something going on. The universe is conspiring. So I'm not going to question it. Yeah, I was on a couple podcasts. You take a break here and the energy's got to go somewhere. The energy must get out. That podcasting's got to get into the universe. I did one with Ben Ornstein on his Hackers Incorporated. He's out. He's out at Tuple.

Ian Landsman (05:06.217)
Yeah.

No.

Ian Landsman (05:15.945)
Yup. Gotta get out.

Ian Landsman (05:25.257)
Yeah, listen to that. That was great.

Aaron (05:30.542)
onto the next adventure. I know he is living the dream. I know. It's crazy. How do I do that? Yeah. And then I did a few others about like YouTube and I went on the lemon squeezy one to talk about how side projects are a good insurance for getting laid off. So yeah, you know, doing the tour, put a couple of tweets out. It's, it's a, we're media empire, man. You gotta keep, gotta keep it rolling.

Ian Landsman (05:30.633)
Crazy, living the dream. Yeah, just owning, owning.

Ian Landsman (05:38.409)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (05:45.897)
I dunno.

Yep.

Ian Landsman (05:56.681)
I know you gotta be out there. Yep, that's true. You gotta stay top of mind.

Aaron (06:01.486)
and I put out a video that you were featured in? We got the Ian Lansman on YouTube now?

Ian Landsman (06:05.673)
So awesome. I was like, I was like in a huge part of it. I was like, man, this is like, I was feeling kind of down. I was sick. I was like, man, this is like, cheered me right up. It was very, very nice of you to include me. And I think worked really well. And then also since it was like for cloud flare, I was like, kind of had this whole inside joke angle for the people in the know.

Aaron (06:11.118)
You were.

Aaron (06:21.07)
I think so. I know. Listen, people inside CloudFlare know your name, Ian. How does that make you feel? Is that awesome? I figured, yeah. So yeah, that was my triumphant return to independent YouTube was I made a CloudFlare video, which was a lot of fun. First one in the studio, still a few things, a few kinks I'm working out, but it's good to be back and I think we're...

Ian Landsman (06:31.433)
That makes me feel very good. That is awesome. So cool. I love CloudFlare.

Aaron (06:50.862)
You know, Steve and I are gearing up obviously for a ton more video and the personal YouTube is a part of that strategy. It's not really personal anymore. It's like Steve and I are both working on it, but still my channel.

Ian Landsman (07:03.081)
All right, that's just one of your distribution channels that you offer. Yeah, yeah, I think that makes sense. How's initial sales and leads and all that stuff going? What's the update there on the business?

Aaron (07:06.414)
Exactly, exactly. Yep.

Aaron (07:14.894)
man. It's going great. I think we're I think we're gonna make it and you know, not knock on knock on wood. I think this is what knock on MDF maybe MDF with a wood veneer. But we might. I don't know if it'll happen in the first 12 months. We might end up making a lot more than we made as as W2 employees. Yeah.

Ian Landsman (07:18.953)
I like the sound of that. I like the sound of it.

Ian Landsman (07:42.057)
employed. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you got up here with it. You got up here. That's the thing. When you can charge those, you know, you get into the five figures and high five figures and things like that. I mean, that's a lot of months of work and like even splitting it two ways. It's like, that's a lot of that's a lot of salary there. So, I mean, obviously you have to make it continue to happen is where the rubber meets the road a little bit. But yeah, that's how they catch you. That's what that's when.

Aaron (07:44.398)
Uh huh.

Aaron (07:48.11)
Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Aaron (07:58.222)
Sure is.

Uh huh.

Aaron (08:06.798)
That's how they get you, yeah.

Ian Landsman (08:10.729)
having a normal job is appealing again. You're like, oh yeah, this money just comes in every week and that's kind of nice. But, um, well yeah, if you can keep it rolling, uh, obviously getting off to a solid start is the first step in keeping it rolling. Cause if you get off to a bad start, then, then it doesn't, yeah, it's not rolling at all. Yes, exactly. So, um, so that's great. So I don't know. I know you don't probably want to say too much, but like, uh, you, uh, I still going ahead on like the, you have courses, you have.

Aaron (08:13.038)
Yeah?

Aaron (08:23.246)
Yes, getting it rolling. It turns out it's a big part of keeping it rolling, yeah.

Ian Landsman (08:40.393)
contracted, you're kind of moving ahead on both fronts.

Aaron (08:40.654)
Yeah.

Moving ahead on both fronts right now for like our, um, for the in -house side of the business, we are working on a screencasting .com, uh, relaunch and beefing it up. So Steve is working on a premier course right now. So it's like. Premier for screencasting. So, you know, the only, the 20 % of premiere that you actually need to know to get started, that sort of thing. So he's working on that. I'm working on, um,

Ian Landsman (08:55.273)
Oh, good. Yeah.

Hmm.

Ian Landsman (09:08.361)
Right.

Aaron (09:12.654)
beefing up the main or like flagship course and changing the site up, just like touching the site up a little bit to include additional courses, that sort of thing. So that's what we're working on in -house right now. And we're gonna hopefully launch that in about two weeks. So May 1st is when we're like pushing that out the door. Hopefully we'll get another big influx of cash off of.

you know, the new course and the premier course. And then we have, you know, client projects lined up, but it's really like, I get why, I get why software development agencies are like, I just want to build a product. I just want to build my own SaaS products. Cause I feel like we're already, we already feel that like we're doing, you know, we're doing client work and thinking, how can, like, what can we own in the future to, to, you know, think bigger. And so.

Ian Landsman (09:54.857)
Heheheheh

Ian Landsman (10:06.153)
Right.

have some baseline and yeah.

Aaron (10:10.798)
Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I think we've got honestly, I think we've got like the next six months, probably pretty booked in terms of like what what we're on the hook for. It's crazy. Yeah. And some of it I can't you know, I can't talk about it all right now. But some of it is some of it is like in house courses that are also we're working together with companies on.

Ian Landsman (10:20.137)
Wow, that's crazy.

Ian Landsman (10:35.753)
kind of like sponsored. That's interesting.

Aaron (10:37.166)
Yeah, exactly. So we'll do the course and sell it, but they're they're going to be a part of it as a sponsor. And so.

Ian Landsman (10:44.105)
That makes a lot of sense and you can be showcasing their platform, but still it's useful just in general for those kind of, you know, just the baseline knowledge. It doesn't matter which platform you're on necessarily, but the one in the videos, you know, valuable to the company who's featured in the video. So I like that. That's an interesting path.

Aaron (10:49.454)
Exactly.

Aaron (10:54.606)
Yep.

Aaron (10:59.086)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see how that works out. I think it. I don't know. I think it, I think it could be a really nice model because you get some cash upfront because courses, you know, notoriously, you don't get cash except for the day you launch and maybe like half of the day after and then it's over. But getting some getting a, you know, a payment upfront from a company like that. But.

Ian Landsman (11:21.001)
Right.

Aaron (11:28.014)
moves the needle quite a bit when you know, we're talking about the size of these payments and then we can work on the course for a long time and then get that secondary cash infusion when we launch. So it'll be interesting. I'm excited about it. I'm not working on high performance Laravel right now, although we got a lot of feedback that was like, that's the course you should do. And so I received that feedback and I believe it, it's just going to take a lot more work to do high performance Laravel than it would like.

Ian Landsman (11:37.961)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (11:56.201)
Yeah.

Aaron (11:56.878)
eloquent mastery or something.

Ian Landsman (11:58.857)
Right. Then you have a lot of other stuff. I mean, it seems like you have a lot of hot leads. So I think there's also a little bit of risk there, like putting those aside or telling somebody it's going to be six months is not as appealing as telling them it's going to be one month or two months or whatever. So you do have to balance that a little bit, probably on the consulting end or this even the sponsored content. And it's like, if you have these things coming in now, you kind of want to strike while the iron's hot there, I think, um, as much as you can. I really liked the idea of.

Aaron (12:03.502)
Yes.

Aaron (12:20.846)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Landsman (12:28.969)
relaunching the screencasting course. I think that is really smart. I think, you know, you launched it, but it was like, I think like you've talked about before, it's like, there is kind of just always that cloud a little bit of like, are you going to be all day, every day pushing this thing when you're supposed to be doing other stuff or planet scale at that time and everything. And it's like, so now you can like kind of give it the big push. And obviously you also have just, I think, new people in the audience since then and everything like that. So, and to me, that's still always like the foundational element for you guys.

Aaron (12:42.318)
Right. Supposed to be doing something else, yeah.

Aaron (12:53.326)
Yep. Yeah, I think.

I think that could be, I think it could be the baseline that like we could then take some bigger risks off of. Yeah.

Ian Landsman (13:02.985)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (13:06.793)
Yeah. And that's so much easier to flush that out. I mean, like we talked about before, but like, get that SEO going on that. Like there's just a huge market out there. If you can get the SEO going, but people, you know, whatever, however, Twitter followers you have, like there's still, you know, 10 ,000 times where people out there searching for screencasting, then they're ever going to follow you. So, um, yeah, getting that kind of stuff going will be a huge help to that. And then, yeah, like this premiere cars, like whatever, adding little bits to it where you can relaunch it every couple months, um, kind of fresh with some new stuff.

Aaron (13:11.95)
Yes.

Aaron (13:21.486)
Yes, correct.

Aaron (13:33.198)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (13:36.553)
And just keep that going.

Aaron (13:38.766)
Yep, and we're gonna start doing a lot of these gear guides and reviews and put together like, all right, you wanna do a bundle and you're on super budget, here's exactly what you can buy. Here's camera light, and if you wanna do a bundle and you're on an extreme budget, here's the better camera and here's four lights and all of this stuff.

Ian Landsman (13:46.025)
No.

Ian Landsman (13:54.377)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (14:02.537)
Right?

Aaron (14:03.822)
So hopefully we can get a lot of inbound SEO from people looking for gear and that sort of stuff. But also, yeah.

Ian Landsman (14:09.769)
Yep. And if you do videos with those too, like those could be on YouTube as like lead gen videos and things like that. I'm the links in.

Aaron (14:16.558)
Exactly. I'm in a real, I'm in a real like everything goes everywhere kind of phase right now. So it's like, that's the play. I think I've realized that I'm the top of the funnel here. And I'm like, I'm the person bringing most of this, which is the plan, bringing most of this attention in. And so like, you know, articles, tweets, podcasts, videos, it's all got to be

Ian Landsman (14:22.985)
Right. I think that's the play with these things, right? Like...

Ian Landsman (14:34.954)
Right.

Aaron (14:43.726)
It's all got to be used in multiple places. And so like when I, you know, when I do a podcast or guest podcast and I got to transcribe it and pull out any ideas that could be turned into tweets or articles and turn those into articles and then turn the articles into videos. It's just like the whole thing, the whole thing's just got to keep going. It's a whole, it's a whole machine.

Ian Landsman (14:46.601)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (14:59.177)
Right.

And that's a lot of work right there too, you know, you have to have time for all that. And yeah, there's even like SEO stuff around that. Like when the big SEO things is like time on page and stuff like that. So like when you make the YouTube video of the article about the premiere, uh, or, you know, the best camera setup or whatever, like you want to have that YouTube video embedded in there. So like people watch it and they longer on the page. So like, yeah. So having all that stuff and then getting it organized correctly and getting it.

Aaron (15:07.086)
Yeah.

Aaron (15:12.974)
Mm -hmm.

Aaron (15:18.83)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Landsman (15:30.505)
published correctly and all that is a big project.

Aaron (15:31.918)
that yes. Yeah, that's what I'm working on. That's what I worked on this weekend for my personal site was getting it all like, getting it all sucked in and organized and in terms of podcasts, getting those transcribed, all of that stuff so that people one people can find it more easily, but to Google has some stuff to chew on and hopefully we'll bring them to my site. So it's fun. I like I like setting up

Ian Landsman (15:44.265)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (15:54.921)
Yep. Yeah.

Aaron (16:00.59)
you know, systems to do things for me. And part of like part of the places, part of the place that I've struggled historically is not having a system. And so feeling like then, oh, I'm not going to do the thing, but it would take too long to set up the system. And so I'm just going to sit here and worry about it. So instead of doing that, I spent the weekend building out a pretty good system that I'm happy with.

Ian Landsman (16:14.953)
Alright. Yup.

Ian Landsman (16:23.018)
Nice. Now you just have to do it for all the other sites and then you'll be set. It never ends.

Aaron (16:26.67)
Yeah, exactly. I know. I know. There's so much to do.

No, I do feel, I will say, I do feel not having a job really opens up how much time you have.

Ian Landsman (16:39.209)
Yeah, yeah. Big difference if you're trying to just squish it in at 930 at night or 1130 at night or two in the morning or whatever. But I can just do this at 2 PM and I'm still pretty awake and fresh. Yeah.

Aaron (16:41.166)
Big, big ol' big ol' difference. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron (16:51.758)
Yep. I will say if you need money, jobs are, that's actually pretty good. I'm still working, I'm still trying to figure that side of the thing out, but having the free time is awesome. I just, I love it so much.

Ian Landsman (17:04.073)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely let you move faster for sure that you've been able to work that part out enough to have a little breathing room to get going on it.

Aaron (17:14.656)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (17:16.553)
Alright, what else is going on?

Aaron (17:18.702)
All right, let's see. You gotta tell me about, I need you to talk to me about this healthcare stuff. So here's the deal. Here's the deal. Had a great tweet and I knew it. I knew it from the time it came out of my fingers. I knew this was gonna work. So I got my, you know, I got my COBRA renewal notice, which if you're not in the United States, that's awesome. Congratulations. In the United States, COBRA is like a legal.

Ian Landsman (17:25.033)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (17:33.353)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (17:41.993)
There you go.

Aaron (17:46.542)
for like continuing healthcare coverage. Yeah, for 18 months, but you pay through the nose for it. So I got my renewal and it was like, great, you can keep your healthcare. It's like, oh, that's amazing. Thank you so much. What a kind and generous government. And you'll have to pay $3 ,700 a month. I was like, ooh, that's a lot of money. So I put it on Twitter.

Ian Landsman (17:50.057)
When you leave a job, you can keep your healthcare coverage for a certain amount of time.

Ian Landsman (18:07.657)
Wow, that's a hefty one. Yeah.

Aaron (18:14.414)
got 1 .5 million impressions, which is the best one I've ever had. And it was something so stupid. But I think it touched a nerve with, you know, a certain political demographic. And they took that as a way to advance their message. And I'm like, that's great. Just as long as you retweet me. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're telling me that because Steve and I have a two person LLC, I can sign up for.

Ian Landsman (18:16.521)
Wow, that's crazy.

Ian Landsman (18:24.713)
Right?

Ian Landsman (18:30.089)
They did miss the subtext a little there, but yeah.

Aaron (18:40.814)
for JustWorks and they're like a, what is it, a PEO or something? So what's the story here?

Ian Landsman (18:44.585)
Right. So, I mean, definitely that Cobra is crazy. I think you'll want to get off of that. The, you know, like the marketplace, the healthcare marketplace we have in the United States, which I think you looked into a little bit, it's just a place to get healthcare, which could, you know, could definitely work. But JustWorks, yeah, Obamacare. Right. I've never used that myself, but I think it's definitely a thing people do and works.

Aaron (19:02.094)
Which that's Obamacare, right? The marketplace is Obamacare, right? Okay.

Ian Landsman (19:14.217)
But yeah, Justworks, I mean, the thing with Justworks is it does a lot of stuff that you're going to need to do, which you might not even be doing right now, which you're probably, you know, potentially breaking the law and things like that. Um.

Aaron (19:23.566)
Well, I don't know about that. I'm not selling oregano as weed. We're just getting started here, okay? Yeah. That's probably true.

Ian Landsman (19:26.249)
It's in the ballpark, it's in the ballpark. It's stuff the government cares about more than that actually. Basically, you know, the big thing is like your payroll. So you have money coming in, there's two of you, there's different ways to handle this, but since you're already, it sounds like having some fair amount of money come in, you really are supposed to pay yourself a salary and not just take everything as owner draw. And once you do that,

Like you have all the payroll taxes, you have social security, Medicare, blah, blah, blah, blah, all the stuff you have to be paying. So you're going to need some kind of payroll provider in general. Um, I would think accountants can do it for you or you could do it yourself, which is insane. I would not recommend you do it yourself. Um, yeah. So you could, so you could have your accountant do it, which I actually did do for awhile, but it's not the best. They don't really love to, I don't know. It's kind of weird. You don't have like a lot of visibility. Yeah, exactly.

Aaron (20:08.079)
Nope, I'm not an accountant anymore.

Aaron (20:19.63)
Accountants don't love anything. They're terrible at everything. It's like, hey, can you send me an email once a year and remind me to do stuff? And they're like, nah, you gotta contact me and fill out my organizer that's 40 pages long. I'm like, what am I paying you for? Anyway.

Ian Landsman (20:23.433)
They don't really want to do it.

Ian Landsman (20:34.857)
I do now have an awesome accountant. So if anybody needs an accountant, I can recommend you an amazing one, but still I don't have him do this stuff. Like he does my taxes. That's what he does. And he's there for advice and other things. And that's it. Like he doesn't do any of this other stuff. So yeah, so that's, that's a big one. Once you have some organization doing that for you, then like, at least in the case of JustWorks, you could get healthcare through JustWorks. You are paying JustWorks every month for this opportunity at $99 an employee a month.

Um, if you have, well, for, well, no, for them to do the payroll and all the other stuff they do plus the healthcare. Yeah. For the entire thing. Yeah. And it's actually, it's $59 an employee. If you don't go get healthcare through them, if you want healthcare through them, then that adds, it goes to $99 an employee. Yeah.

Aaron (21:05.358)
just for the opportunity to then pay for healthcare.

Aaron (21:11.694)
Oh, for the entire PEO thing, they're $99 an employee. Got it, got it, got it. Now here's a question.

Aaron (21:23.982)
Here's a question for you. Would it be that Steve and I are a group or do we join some sort of like Just Works conglomerate group?

Ian Landsman (21:30.665)
Right.

Yeah, you're like in the JustWorks conglomerate group. So you're getting like the JustWorks pricing.

Aaron (21:37.486)
Okay, so it may not be prohibitively expensive.

Ian Landsman (21:40.905)
No, like I think, you know, it is different in where you live and all this stuff, but I think ours is like for the family plan, like $1 ,100 a month, I want to say something like that. Um, that's like on the lowest one. Like I just get the lowest one with a high deductible and whatever. Um, you can get fancier ones. I don't have those, uh, but they do offer them. Um, so yeah, so I mean, that's a path to the healthcare depend, you know,

Aaron (21:49.262)
Hey, that's not bad.

Aaron (21:54.062)
Okay, that is bad, yeah.

Ian Landsman (22:11.241)
comparing it to the marketplace and what you wanna do there. But there's other stuff they do too. Like there's, if you want that 401k, you could get around that right now. If you wanna do like SEP IRA, which you can do while you don't have any employee employees, while you're just owners. Once you have employees, it doesn't work as well, which we could get into if you want. But 401k, if you wanna go that route, there's then like contractors, workers comp. So there is like these different things where like contractors.

Aaron (22:24.75)
Mm -hmm. Hmm.

Aaron (22:37.134)
So that would generate all the 1099s and stuff.

Ian Landsman (22:38.985)
1099s and stuff. Yeah. Like it organizes all that for you, which again, like an accountant can do it. Maybe I guess you could do it yourself. Um, yeah, I know exactly. I don't recommend it. I don't recommend anybody does anything themselves. Like it's so nice to just have just works. You have a question about something like you can go to them. They've always been very helpful. So.

Aaron (22:45.038)
Hmm. No, stop saying that. I'm not doing any of that. I'm not doing any of that myself. No.

Aaron (22:56.462)
Man, I don't recommend anybody doing anything themselves, amen. If there's one thing I love, it's just not doing stuff. Just love not doing stuff.

Ian Landsman (23:00.361)
Bye.

Ian Landsman (23:03.849)
Yeah, exactly. And for somewhere between 59 and $99 an employee month, it's like, that's a write off. You just write it off and like somebody does all this stuff and they make sure the paperwork gets to you and everybody else who needs paperwork. And they deal with just all the overhead of the even individual States. If you're remote and you have different States in the mix and like each state has their own weird stuff that needs to be paid as part of payroll and all that stuff. So they kind of handle everything.

Aaron (23:11.022)
That's a write -off.

Aaron (23:29.614)
All right, so riddle me this. JustWorks is the same or different than Gusto, or which you might call it Gusto.

Ian Landsman (23:37.385)
No, it's different. I haven't looked at Gusto in a while, but I believe they were just like a payroll. Oh, it looks like they've expanded a little bit to say they do HR stuff. Let's see, they might've, let's see, payroll. Oh, they do more of this stuff now. They don't do, it doesn't look like, it doesn't look like they do healthcare though.

Aaron (23:44.27)
payroll provider.

Aaron (23:49.646)
Hmm.

Ian Landsman (24:01.449)
Oh no, health benefits. Yeah. So I think it is the same as gusto. I guess at this point it was, it didn't used to be the same as gusto, but now it looks like gusto has expanded to, uh, take on the rest. Cause it's kind of like, it makes sense because everybody wants to outsource this part of their business. Like they want the other stuff too. Like, so you just want to go to one spot and, uh, and have the healthcare and all that stuff. I mean, the other nice thing is you're not here yet, but like, as you get employees, like,

Aaron (24:17.998)
Yes.

Ian Landsman (24:31.241)
any trouble they have with like healthcare plans and things like they go to Justworks, not you, which is a huge thing. Cause like we used to, we used to do this, like where we managed the health, like we went to the insurance provider, we had a healthcare plan for userscape. If employees had problems, they basically had to come to us first and then go, we would try to send it up the flag pole to like the healthcare company, whatever. It was like a total mess. So now it's like, no, just go to Justworks and Justworks handles it.

Aaron (24:34.83)
Mmm.

Aaron (24:38.542)
I don't want anybody calling me, yeah.

Aaron (24:57.486)
Can you imagine going to your boss and being like, hey, I got a tummy ache and my insurance isn't working. Like there's nothing more embarrassing than that. No, don't tell me about your tummy aches. There's supposed to be a barrier here. I'm not supposed to know this stuff.

Ian Landsman (25:03.625)
Right. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's like, I don't want to be in the middle of this stuff with your health insurance. So yeah. So. Well, that, that, yeah, that's the fever gets weird. It's like, I don't know. Am I supposed to know about this? Like, what am I supposed to know about? You know, so I like having this all be separate. So yeah. And just works. Definitely not the only one. So apparently gusto does it. There are others, um, as well. Yeah.

Aaron (25:26.798)
ADP is the big dog, right? Don't they do it all? ADP and what's the other one? Inspirity? No. Something else.

Ian Landsman (25:31.817)
So ADP didn't used to do it all. They used to just be payroll, which we used to have ADP for payroll after we moved off just the accountants, we went to ADP. But, and then we went to Justworks because ADP did not do it all. But now I do think they have also got on the we do it all bandwagon. So I'm pretty sure you can do this stuff.

Aaron (25:37.614)
Uh -huh.

Aaron (25:49.454)
So this is the way that you know all of this is you've done you've used every single one of these.

Ian Landsman (25:53.065)
Yeah, I've used everything. Yeah. I started with just the accountant and getting my own insurance myself, like through the whole process of this evolution of these PEOs. And now we don't have to do any of this ourselves and it's great. And so, yeah. So everybody has it much easier now, of course you, I had to suffer. You all can live life easy street, but, um, and yeah, I guess now I haven't looked at anything else in years. Like I just pay just works. I don't even think about it. Obviously if you're just starting out now, you.

Aaron (26:08.558)
Amazing.

Aaron (26:15.502)
Thanks, Dad.

Ian Landsman (26:22.089)
Yes, you should probably go to gusto and go to guess work to maybe be able to play them off each other and like save a few bucks. Who knows? Um, but they're all providing the same type of service where you're going to be able to, uh, just outsource a lot of this and not have the headache and make sure you're compliant with the law. Cause then like, when you're not paying these like federal taxes correctly and stuff, then you get in trouble. They care. They care about that. They care about that a lot. They get on you for that. Um,

Aaron (26:43.278)
They care about that, yeah.

Aaron (26:47.598)
Yeah, if there's one thing that the government actually enforces, it's paying taxes. You don't wanna mess around with that. There's even a line on there for like, I think on your income taxes for how much money you made via bribery and like how much money you made via stolen goods or something like that. And my recommendation, my non accountant recommendation is if you make a bunch of money off bribery, just put it on there.

Ian Landsman (26:54.953)
Right.

Ian Landsman (27:08.297)
Right. Yeah. You got to pay taxes no matter what.

Ian Landsman (27:16.905)
Just put it on there. Yeah. Can't hurt.

Aaron (27:17.775)
Just put it on there, pay your taxes and figure it out later. Yeah, exactly.

Ian Landsman (27:21.769)
Yep. I agree. You got to pay the taxes. And like the thing is people try to skirt the like personal taxes a little bit by like, if you just take it of all your money, make as owner draws, then you're going to pay income tax, but you're going to not have to pay the corporate like the different, uh, like social security taxes and things like that, payroll taxes, um, which saves you some money. Uh, but they look, they frown on that very much. So you really should pay yourself a salary.

Aaron (27:37.23)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Aaron (27:50.19)
straight to jail.

Ian Landsman (27:51.177)
anybody out there who's not paying themselves a salary, you should pay yourself salaries. You're supposed to pay yourself a salary commensurate with what you would be paid if you worked for somebody else. I don't go necessarily quite that far with it, but I...

Aaron (28:01.87)
Yeah, I'm talking like 60%, 50 % of what you could make somewhere else.

Ian Landsman (28:05.001)
Yeah, but I do pay myself a reasonable salary. Um, and so, cause basically here's the thing, like it maxes out at like 120 or 140 ,000 or something like that. So like, if you get, you know, if obviously once you're making more money, but like, if you make a half million dollars a year and you pay yourself a hundred thousand, you're in the ballpark of like maxing out your social security and stuff. So that's what they care about. If you make.

Aaron (28:26.574)
Hell yeah.

Ian Landsman (28:33.417)
If the business is bringing in a half a million dollars a year and you pay yourself $10 ,000 a year in payroll, and then you withdraw $300 ,000 a year as owner draw that they don't like to see. So that's a little tip. I know my wife is big on that. She's like, screw them. Let's just, why do I hate? She hates pay the taxes. She hates it, but I don't like going to jail. So trying to avoid the jail time.

Aaron (28:44.046)
That's what I want to do. That sounds awesome. Yeah.

Aaron (28:52.974)
Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. I think, yeah, that is something I'm optimizing for as well. I think that all of that only applies. Yeah, that's true. And honestly, a quiet night in a jail cell, that sounds kind of great. As long as I'm by myself, that sounds kind of awesome.

Ian Landsman (29:01.449)
Right? Although, we've never been arrested. So I don't know, maybe we should.

Ian Landsman (29:10.281)
Sounds pretty good. That sounds a little vacation.

Aaron (29:16.814)
Yeah, all of this of course only applies I think to S and C corps. Now we're getting real in the weeds because pass through entities you just you got to pay tax on everything. And so I think we need to elect S before we file next year.

Ian Landsman (29:21.929)
Right.

Ian Landsman (29:30.825)
Yeah. Uh, I know C corps are a whole different beast there. I don't know about the C corp set up, but yeah, you don't want to be a C you want to be LLC filing as an S I think would be the play normally. Um, yeah. So that way it's all, you want the protections of the corporation and the LLC and all that stuff.

Aaron (29:34.574)
Yeah, we didn't we didn't incorporate a C so we can't now. No.

Yeah, I think that's what we're going to go for.

Oh man.

Yeah, talk to a real accountant. Don't get your advice from podcasters. Unless they're us, unless the podcasters are us. Well, yeah.

Ian Landsman (29:53.097)
Yes, you definitely need to always talk to your accountants. Yeah. I mean, you are an accountant and I was an accounting major. So we kind of know something about this. We know a little more about this than the other stuff we pretend to be.

Aaron (30:02.734)
We know, yes, we know a lot more than the average person, but a lot less than we should to be giving advice.

Ian Landsman (30:06.953)
Yeah, and everybody's particular arrangements are different what your situation is. So definitely get a good accountant. If you don't, you'll know if you have a good accountant. To me, this is like, if you feel like your accountant like isn't great, that means they're a bad accountant and you should go get a different accountant. Like I got to hook you up with my guy. He's the best. He's unbelievable. When I got hooked up with this guy. So like I went from the accountant to another accountant. They're both terrible.

Aaron (30:25.357)
Yeah, I need a different accountant.

Aaron (30:30.35)
Yeah, I might need that.

Ian Landsman (30:37.545)
The first guy was actually pretty good, but he just wasn't like modernized and stuff. We outgrew him. And then the second guy was no good. And then I was just desperate, desperate. And I knew this guy way back in the day, there was this thing called slice host, which was like kind of one of the first like partial server hosting things. And he got, they got really big and they got bought, whatever. And I knew this guy and I was like, dude, I need an accountant. And he was like, I have the greatest accountant in the world. So I was like, let me have.

Aaron (30:52.238)
Yeah, I remember it. Yeah.

Ian Landsman (31:06.345)
So I got this accountant and he is the greatest account in the world. These they're they're unbelievable. They're so good. I bought this guy like a super fancy bottle of scotch or something. Send it to him. I was like, this is like the greatest thing ever. Just like when you get in with a good account, it's just so much better. They just know what they're talking about on so many fronts. So anyway.

Aaron (31:22.286)
All right, two things. You know, one, first, you know that that accountant put that bottle of Scotch gift on his taxes and he paid tax on it. That counts, yeah, that counts as compensation. Second question, are they remote? Can they do the taxes of a person in Texas, for example? Oh, great. Fantastic.

Ian Landsman (31:28.713)
He's like, you gotta pay tax on that. That gift, yeah.

Ian Landsman (31:38.057)
Yeah.

They're in St. Louis and I've never met them in person. So they work very well remotely. Yep. No problems there.

Aaron (31:47.374)
And are they like proactive? Because the problem I have with accountants historically is you hear from them on April 14th and they're like, hey, just wanted to let you know, like, where's your stuff? And like, we haven't talked, we haven't talked in 364 days. Like, come on, man.

Ian Landsman (31:52.457)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Landsman (32:00.105)
Right? Yeah, no, they are way more proactive than that. They're always on us in like January to like start getting our stuff together. And then usually before that, like in November, they'll at least reach out. If there's anything big or weird on the year that we might need to adjust for before the end of the year and things like that. Or just, you know, to sketch out the year where it stands now and if there's going to be a huge tax bill and if we want to spend some money.

Aaron (32:29.166)
Hmm.

Ian Landsman (32:29.257)
Uh, ahead of time or things like that. So yeah, for the most part, they're, they're really good about that. Um, and I imagine like, I've always been pretty hands off with them other than that. They, you know, we're always on time with everything and they're always well ahead of schedule and getting our stuff. Definitely not like the April 14th stuff, but you know, I've also reached out to them many times, like, Hey, I got a question, business thing, contract, whatever. Um, they're always really good. They actually help. Yeah.

Aaron (32:37.774)
Mm.

Aaron (32:55.822)
and they actually help. God, that's crazy. All right, we gotta talk.

Ian Landsman (32:58.761)
They know the stuff. And I've hooked these people up with like, I must've sent them at least 10 or more companies over the years. Um, and as far as I know, everybody, uh, still is with that. Laracast uses them. Titan uses them. So a lot of people use them in our circles. Yeah. So, and they've been happy with them as far as I know, um, still with them. So, uh, trust me when he sends me these five figure tax bills, I'm like, huh.

Aaron (33:11.406)
Oh, no way. Really?

Aaron (33:20.078)
He should be sending you a bottle of scotch. I don't know why you're sending him stuff.

Ian Landsman (33:27.497)
Like I probably sent you many hundreds of thousand dollars or millions of dollars. I mean, he is whatever they actually do. They're he helped. He hooked me up in some different ways, but yes, like I do agree. They're, they're kind of old school. You know, they're not thinking on the modern internet. Let's have a referral program sort of thing, but, uh, and whatever, I just want them to stay in business and be wealthy and keep doing what they're doing because I don't want to have to find a new accountant. So that that's compensation enough.

Aaron (33:29.486)
Huh, that's interesting.

Aaron (33:38.606)
Hmm.

Aaron (33:44.59)
Right, yeah.

Aaron (33:54.83)
No, accountants are the worst. Yeah. All right, well, I'll get that name from you.

Ian Landsman (33:57.033)
Yeah. Yep. So I don't know. So yeah, you guys got to figure that out, but don't delay too long.

Aaron (34:02.478)
All right.

Oh, what I ended up doing. So I haven't, I have till the end of, I have till the end of April. Um, there is a podcast called Startup to Last kind of the same, same as every other bootstrap podcasts. Uh, it's Rick and Tyler. And I listened, I've listened to that one for many years. Tyler works as the founder of Less Annoying CRM and Rick, his co -host is the founder of Leg Up Health, which is like,

Ian Landsman (34:14.569)
Mm.

Ian Landsman (34:19.593)
I don't know this one.

Mm.

Aaron (34:33.294)
It's hard to explain, I think. They serve as like insurance agents or brokers or independent somethings. And one of like his co -founder just moved to Texas and so he's licensed in Texas. And so I reached out to him and was like, hey, is this like the kind of thing you do? And it's exactly the kind of thing that they do. And so I talked to this guy for like an hour and he, you know, walked me through all the available plans and stuff. And apparently,

Ian Landsman (34:38.313)
Mm. Mm -hmm.

Ian Landsman (34:47.177)
Mmm.

Aaron (35:01.518)
If you are an individual and you go through the marketplace, there are tax incentives or credits available, but unlike other tax credits, they come off of your health insurance premiums upfront. And so you put in, you put in like your number of dependents and then estimated income and it calculates like, here's what your credits are. We'll apply that to this list of premiums that you're looking at now.

Ian Landsman (35:07.881)
Okay, interesting.

Ian Landsman (35:15.913)
Okay.

Ian Landsman (35:28.041)
Huh? Mm.

Aaron (35:30.35)
And then if you lie, it all gets trued up on your tax return. And so that, I think, what I'm told is that is what Obama and his agency built is that is the marketplace. It's the coordination between the individual and the company and the tax, like the IRS. That's like what the marketplace means. And so we looked at several plans and I think we're...

Ian Landsman (35:34.921)
Right.

Ian Landsman (35:52.041)
Okay.

Right.

Aaron (35:58.606)
going to be able to hit a thousand dollars, maybe 1200, 15 with these credits. And so, no, it's not bad at all. I mean, unless you're European and you get it for free and like, yeah, I don't, that's not helpful to me. I don't, thank you for telling me, but that's not helpful. So we'll see, I'll talk to him again this week and then I will look at Justworks and we'll see where it lands. But the good news is we'll end up with something and it won't be $3 ,700 a month.

Ian Landsman (36:04.745)
Which these days, that's not bad.

Ian Landsman (36:11.913)
Right. Europeans.

Ian Landsman (36:28.937)
Yeah, that's, that's crazy. That's, uh, that's crazy. I don't, yeah. I don't remember how Cobra works. If you could switch plans, I kind of think so, right? You're like locked into the company's plan, whatever they had. So then you just end up paying like the raw cost and yeah, they got that VC money they're trying to blow through. So they're like, let's get the, let's get the Cadillac health plan. Yup.

Aaron (36:37.134)
No. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And apparent... Bingo.

Yes, and apparently these health insurance companies kind of like, kind of gouge the companies, like the planet scales of the world. And so then when you are let go, you get the like price gouged price as an individual. So the whole thing is bad news, but I think we're on the straight and narrow. So, okay.

Ian Landsman (36:55.433)
Right?

Ian Landsman (37:03.305)
Right? Yeah.

Ian Landsman (37:09.961)
Yeah, good. All right. Everyone updates their apps too fast you have on here. What is this? Give me something.

Aaron (37:16.302)
Oh man, all right. Here's the thing. I'm about to say some stuff. And I know that I'm mostly in the wrong, but I want you to defend me and back me up anyway. Okay, so I know I'm mostly in the wrong, but it's still kind of annoying. Everybody updates their apps too fast, okay? So like, Laravel 11 comes out.

Ian Landsman (37:23.977)
I'm ready.

Ian Landsman (37:28.073)
I love that. That's the best.

Ian Landsman (37:33.257)
Alright.

Ian Landsman (37:43.081)
Okay. Yeah.

Aaron (37:45.23)
And like that day, people are like, Hey, Aaron, all these packages that you wrote when you had a lot more time, they're not up to date with Laravel 11. And I'm like, it just, it just released literally this morning and I'm getting DMs. It's like, Hey, do you think you can update this? I'm like, I just lost my job. I don't know what I'm doing here. So here's the thing. Updating to Laravel 11 on the day of that's, that's, that's great. I love that for our community that we're like Johnny on the spot. That's awesome.

Ian Landsman (37:51.817)
Ah yes.

Yeah.

Ian Landsman (38:10.889)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (38:14.281)
Right?

Aaron (38:14.99)
as a package maintainer who does it as a hobby and didn't really have that much time anymore. God, you guys gotta give me just a second. Now, here's the bad news. Laravel 11 was released a few weeks ago now and I still haven't updated my packages. So I don't have a lot of, like, I don't have a lot of ground to stand on here, but still, everybody updates everything too fast. Like, how are you?

updating your production applications in a day. This makes no sense to me.

Ian Landsman (38:45.929)
I have so many thoughts and questions on this. This is such a great topic. So.

Aaron (38:47.95)
Yeah, tell me, it's crazy. You gotta wait for the 0 .01 release, because you don't wanna, what are your thoughts?

Ian Landsman (38:54.665)
Part of me feels like, and I'm sure there's exceptions out there. Part of me feels like these people on the day one upgrades, these are not real applications. These are people with little side projects. These are not people with thousands of users who are like day one of the release. I'm looking to get the new version of Laravel, the new packages that some guy in the middle of the night, cause he's got a day job, just slapped together some fixes. I'm not trying to ship that out to production. Like I'm just not, I don't know why we would do that. I mean,

Aaron (39:03.31)
Ooh, spicy. Yeah.

Aaron (39:12.27)
Yeah.

Aaron (39:23.246)
No, you gotta let it bake. You gotta let it bake.

Ian Landsman (39:25.897)
We're getting a little too far behind on our Laravel. So like help spot has been converted onto Laravel in this sort of crazy way. We're still like on eight or something crazy. So like, that's one of my projects is to get to 11 here, but still I'm not, I'm not trying to do it day one for sure. Um, so part of these like that, that's like one of the negatives of the open source maintainer, right? Is it's like, Oh, like people are on you. And it's like, are these even people who are like really shipping this, their big apps with lots of users, are they really shipping level 11 the first day?

Aaron (39:28.302)
I -

Aaron (39:34.542)
See, there you go. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah.

Aaron (39:49.485)
Right. Yeah.

Ian Landsman (39:54.569)
maybe a couple of really hardcore people are, but like can't be the majority, I wouldn't think, or even any large percentage. So yeah, that's nice. That's nice.

Aaron (39:59.534)
can't be.

Aaron (40:03.31)
But they're very nice, wonderful, lovely people. And if that's you, if that's you listener, I am grateful for you. But yes, carry on.

Ian Landsman (40:09.929)
I am amazed that you're able to pull it off. I cannot pull it off for sure. Yeah, you know, I don't know what is your, I mean, we could flip the script, right? Like, hey, it's open source. It's out there. It's pro, I mean, you, your packages aren't that crazy. Like, I mean, I don't know, like how much work could there be to upgrade it to Laravel 11? It's not like Laravel 11 like changed.

Aaron (40:22.926)
Yeah.

If they're not, they're very good.

Aaron (40:32.334)
Oh, it's just a tiny amount, yeah. Barely anything. Yeah. Yeah, this again is a strike against, it's a strike against me because it's very little, very little work and I should just do it. And so, but I still want to complain. And some people, some people have and I haven't merged it. Cause I'm like, ah, I just gotta, I gotta, I gotta address this later. Yeah. Then that's, that's, yeah. It's all on me.

Ian Landsman (40:34.697)
all of eloquent or whatever and everything's totally different. Like, I mean, it can't be that much work. Like throw the pull request up there. That's both sides though. It's both sides. They can submit it. The kind of person.

Okay. That's a little more on you. Maybe if they've submitted a pull request and you haven't merged it, that's a little more on you. But like, if you're the kind of person who's complaining, but you're also shipping Laravel 11 to your production app on day one, then I think you can make the half an hour to like submit the pull request and help Aaron out. Now, if it's in your court now and you just haven't merged it.

Aaron (41:02.286)
Okay.

Ian Landsman (41:18.377)
That's okay. That's a little more on you. Like you could, you got to maybe carve out a little time. This is part of your media empire. Um, part of your brand out there. How many, how many of these do you have?

Aaron (41:25.006)
It is. It really is.

Aaron (41:31.022)
Oh, I probably have that people actually use. I've probably got five or six packages. Sidecar being the biggest, then probably AirDrop. And then a bunch of random little stuff.

Ian Landsman (41:37.545)
Okay.

Ian Landsman (41:47.625)
Did um, I thought I saw this but I could be wrong. Didn't Laravel Shift have a thing for packages too or am I making that up?

Aaron (41:54.478)
Yeah, he'll open PRs against packages. And he did, I think he did for Sidecar and AirDrop. And I think Sidecar I've already updated to 11 and AirDrop I've maybe updated to 11 as well. And those PRs are somewhat helpful. They're automated and so they miss or do some weird stuff. But it gives me a starting point for sure.

Ian Landsman (41:57.737)
Okay.

Ian Landsman (42:19.881)
Right.

gets in the ballpark of some of the low hanging fruit and things like that.

Aaron (42:24.366)
Yeah, exactly. Mm -hmm, yeah. So I know that I'm the bad guy here, but it's like, guys, it's day one. Now I don't, you know, we should have recorded this on day one and it would have hit a lot harder. Now that it's like day 15 since it's been released, I kind of look like an idiot here, but still, imagine it's day one. Imagine it's day one and people have already upgraded and you're like, I just haven't done it yet.

Ian Landsman (42:40.169)
Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron (42:54.03)
Crazy!

Ian Landsman (42:54.153)
Does Laravel need a release every year at this point? It's kind of an interesting question. You know, software as it ages, not a new help spot release every year of like, I mean, we release updates, but usually every month -ish, but like there's not a huge new release with tons of new features every year. Like, I don't know.

Aaron (42:57.422)
Oh, whoa. You're just, you're going broad.

Aaron (43:10.51)
Hmm.

Are you suggesting that Laravel maybe do a release once and then call it finished software? We could have like a manifesto like once .com or something. That's a good idea.

Ian Landsman (43:19.849)
Well, I wish, I wish there was finished software. Yeah, yeah. That's a good idea.

Aaron (43:26.286)
I don't know, I think it's nice. No, here's the answer, no. The answer is no. They don't need a release every year, but the release, and they've already switched from six months. Do you remember when it was six months? Major version every six months? That was crazy, we were flying, man. I think it's just a nice escape hatch for them to do like two breaking changes that are like.

Ian Landsman (43:28.777)
It is nice.

Ian Landsman (43:37.193)
That was crazy. That was crazy. Things were happening, yes.

Ian Landsman (43:48.361)
Yeah.

Aaron (43:49.006)
six layers deep in the framework and nobody even knows their breaking changes. But you know, some person is going to be like, oh, this was technically a breaking change. So, but yeah, the upgrade times are like, if you look at the guide, they're like, estimated upgrade time, 15 minutes. Like, this is crazy. How is this so good?

Ian Landsman (43:51.977)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (43:56.745)
Yeah, it's also...

Ian Landsman (44:04.905)
Right?

I actually think even bigger than that, the actual biggest reason is, uh, marketing. Like this is part of what's helped keep Laravel on top is like just constant stuff to talk about, right? It's like the conferences need stuff to talk about. The blogs need stuff to talk about. It's like Laravel 11, it's a big release. Laravel 12, it's a big release. Like.

Aaron (44:13.294)
Mmm.

That's true.

Aaron (44:21.486)
Mm -hmm.

Aaron (44:25.838)
People need to feel like it's moving forward even if, even if like the improvements needed at this point are incremental. It still feels like, oh, we're still moving forward major versions.

Ian Landsman (44:29.385)
Cough

Ian Landsman (44:33.897)
right. That just gives you a chance to talk about I mean they add stuff during the year too and it's like it just gives you a chance to talk about all that stuff where like people are actually paying attention because it's just too hard to pay attention all year long to every release even though you have Laravel news out there obviously doing its best to keep people updated and everybody else but this show we do occasionally we recycle we spend like a whole episode on recycle.

Aaron (44:39.79)
Yeah, a ton of stuff.

Aaron (44:44.494)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron (44:52.366)
And this show, which doesn't talk about Laravel but pretends to, like, we're keeping you updated.

Aaron (45:00.43)
Oh, that's a great one. That was a great one. I think it was the first versus soul or soul versus only or whatever. So you're telling me that you think part of the major version updates is marketing and you're suggesting that Taylor Otwell might be good at marketing. That's crazy. It's wild to hear that. Yeah. I can't believe that. I wonder if that has contributed to his success at all. Maybe, yeah.

Ian Landsman (45:01.737)
That was a great episode. I love Recycle.

Yeah, we did that. Yeah, we've had some stuff.

Ian Landsman (45:18.057)
Yeah, it's a hot take, hot take here.

Ian Landsman (45:24.329)
Maybe just a little bit. Maybe a little bit. The genius. He probably rode off that Lambo. That's how smart he is. Rode off a Lambo as marketing. Genius.

Aaron (45:31.502)
I hope he did, yeah. You get a license plate that says facade, which makes it a business expense, which makes it a write -off. Can you imagine if Taylor Iwell went to jail for tax fraud because he rode off his Lambo? That would definitely be, no, I don't either. Don't go to jail, Taylor. But that would be a major storyline.

Ian Landsman (45:38.729)
Yep. So good. So good.

Ian Landsman (45:45.417)
It goes out in a blaze of glory, this Lambo. That'd be hysterical. I don't want Taylor to go to jail, but that is kind of funny. It's a funny idea.

Aaron (45:59.022)
That would be good content, so consider it, Taylor.

Ian Landsman (45:59.369)
would be.

He's pretty conservative financially in some ways, obviously on the Lambo, but he still at heart is kind of conservative. So I kind of doubt he wrote it off, but I like internally have this story where I believe he wrote it off. Like that's what I tell myself. And that's a more fun story to me that he wrote.

Aaron (46:14.83)
Yeah.

Aaron (46:18.414)
Yeah, he's way too responsible to do that, but yeah, sure. All right, what's next?

Ian Landsman (46:20.745)
Yeah. All right. I need to update on the office. You got a butcher block desk. You got a walking desk. You got a behind you. We see it's looking beautiful. So I need the whole thing, especially the walking desk, but I want to hear the whole, you did a lot of stuff since last we talked. So give us what's up.

Aaron (46:26.318)
Yeah.

Aaron (46:34.702)
Alright.

Aaron (46:38.222)
Did a lot of stuff. I'll tell you what, one of, you know I've had a lot of good ideas. You know, some people would say, mostly, yeah, yeah, thank you. Mostly good ideas. This may be one of my best ideas. This whole apartment scheme is amazing. We love a scheme and this is one of my best schemes ever. So the state of the union over here is,

Ian Landsman (46:44.393)
I mean, you have mostly good ideas. Yeah, I think that's fair.

Ooh.

Ian Landsman (46:55.209)
Yup. I love a scheme. A scheme that pays off.

Aaron (47:08.11)
I'm in the studio right now, which is, would traditionally be called the bedroom of the apartment. Cause one would most often put a bed in here and not a YouTube studio. Yeah, not a fake wall. So I'm in the studio slash bedroom in here. This is where I have my full on like filming gear and lights, camera, microphone, beautiful backdrop, lights everywhere. And so this is...

Ian Landsman (47:14.057)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Landsman (47:18.697)
Got a closet. Right.

Aaron (47:38.03)
It's just is perfect in here. Like everything looks great. I still have a few tweaks for like settings and stuff, but super duper happy in the living room right out there. I've got a balcony that overlooks the pool, like the interior courtyard. And I now have so like I got this this desk that I'm working on here. I got this as a gift from autonomous. Thank you, autonomous. And so I have my old desk a gift. Yeah.

Ian Landsman (48:02.793)
gift. Damn. Hot damn.

Aaron (48:06.574)
Unless the IRS is listening, in which case I don't know where this desk came from. So.

Ian Landsman (48:11.913)
Hold on. Just a, we got it. I got to spend another, so we're not just going past that. So I mean, I get that. That's awesome. I just want to say that this is one of these areas where like, I've always wanted, this is like physical world products. It's like, I can't give somebody help desk software. Like it's not a gift. Nobody welcomes it. They're not like, oh great. Let me spend 20 hours setting this up and getting people. Nobody cares. Nobody wants it as a go. But like, you could just send somebody a desk and they're excited and they talk about it on their vlog and they do all this stuff. Like it's.

Aaron (48:25.582)
No, it's not interesting. No.

Aaron (48:32.462)
Yeah.

Aaron (48:37.422)
I'm excited.

Ian Landsman (48:41.289)
physical world where you can send things. It's so glorious. Anyway, that's my little sidebar.

Aaron (48:42.638)
I know. I know, it is pretty great. You know, I don't know if you want to get into the furniture world, but a help desk is kind of a great idea. I don't know what the angle is there, but it's like, I'm telling you, it's good branding, it's funny. This is your help desk. I just came up with that, yeah. Think about it.

Ian Landsman (48:52.169)
Oh shit. We send people actual desks.

Oh, this is a pretty good idea actually. Huh. I gotta think about this a little more, but I like where this is going. Maybe it's just a little desk. Like we get a little wooden desk and we just send that out and it's kind of cool. Just a little tchotchke. Ooh baby. Okay, I like that. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. All right, all right.

Aaron (49:08.206)
There you go.

Yep. Here's your help desk. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. All right, I'll send you an invoice. All right, so I've got the free desk out here and then in the living room, I have my old desk and I'm like, it's a standing desk, so it's a good desk, but the tabletop is all bowed down from years of use.

Ian Landsman (49:23.305)
Yeah

Aaron (49:41.102)
And I'm like, I wanna kind of have this space be multifunctional. And so I got some casters, some like, you know, workshop wheels to put on the desk. So now I can just roll the desk anywhere, right? So I'm chasing the sun around the room. I'm living the dream. And I'm like, this desktop is kind of, one, it's a little bit, you know, it's a little bit warped, but two, it's kind of like a little janky. It's kind of ugly. And so, no, the vibes are all wrong.

Ian Landsman (49:50.121)
I love those. So good. I love things that roll.

Ian Landsman (50:07.785)
Not giving you vibes you want.

Aaron (50:10.958)
And so I still had an Ikea countertop because I thought I was gonna make shelves out of it, but I made that first shelf and was like, wow, this looks goofy. So I had a full second countertop that I was gonna use and they're like, I don't know, 150 bucks, but extremely heavy and I didn't wanna drive to Frisco to return it. And so I thought, wait, I could use this as a desktop. So I took the old desktop off, put that on my standing legs and now I've got like a,

Ian Landsman (50:19.593)
All right, yep.

Mm -hmm.

Ian Landsman (50:31.177)
I'm sorry.

Aaron (50:40.782)
you know, seven foot long countertop on wheels that I can just roll around. The right side of it is dedicated to like basically makeshift like meetings. You know, I've got my laptop and my camera and my other microphone out there just if I'm taking a casual meeting. The whole left side is dedicated to like notes and books and research and room to draw stuff. It's like, this is perfect. It's so great. Yeah. And then, and then,

Ian Landsman (50:56.521)
Yep.

Ian Landsman (51:06.377)
That is a great setup.

Aaron (51:10.766)
I've got a walking treadmill. And so I can just like roll the desk over the treadmill and just, you know, start walking and get to work. And I'm looking out the window, the door's open. I'm drinking a, you know, a non -diet coke soda. It's like, yeah, might as well. I'm living the dream. It's great. I love it so much.

Ian Landsman (51:23.689)
Millilite.

Ian Landsman (51:30.281)
I said, that's what, when you tweeted the picture, I was like, you're Casey Neistat, baby. You're Casey Neistat of the Laravel world and the YouTube world. It's just like, I love that energy of like a, a space dedicated to your work that's got like tchotchkes and things on the wall and everything has its place and things on wheels and top down cameras. And like that whole vibe is so good. Like I haven't been able to get myself all the way there yet. Now, this is interesting. What you just said unlocked it for me. Cause I've thought about the walking.

Aaron (51:37.422)
That's the dream.

Aaron (51:48.91)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Landsman (51:59.817)
treadmill base thing many times. And I'm like this, I'm just so many times I'm like writing email or stupid shit that I could like be doing that while I'm getting in some steps. Why not? But it's like, it's in your way. Then when I want to sit, it's like, now I got to move this big heavy treadmill base thing. And like, I know I'm just never going to do that. I'm going to move it out of the way once. I'm just going to sit and never going to bring it back. But if you leave the treadmill base where it is, and then you move the desk.

Aaron (52:00.686)
Okay. Okay.

Aaron (52:13.614)
Yes.

Aaron (52:25.55)
Move the actual desk, yeah. You gotta reverse it, man. Yep, you gotta reverse it. It's great.

Ian Landsman (52:27.721)
That's how you do it. That's how you do it. I love this idea. That is the key. And I actually have a perfect spot over on the side here where like, there's a lot of space where I could do it. I wonder if I can edit this desk. Like I have this IKEA desk. I don't know. I guess I could probably find a way to attach some wheels to it.

Aaron (52:34.286)
That is the key.

Aaron (52:44.672)
I'm telling you man, the desk on wheels was a huge, that was a huge unlock for me. Obviously, I've replaced my wheels on my office chair to be like these roller blade wheels so that I can just like, I can fly. But I never thought about putting a desk on wheels until I looked down and saw that it had those little screw in leveling feet. So like if your floor is wonky, you can level your desk. And I thought, I can just swap them.

Ian Landsman (52:50.921)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (52:59.753)
Right?

Ian Landsman (53:07.785)
Yep.

And you could just swap those. Oh shit, I'm sure this has those, it must, yeah.

Aaron (53:14.094)
And so I unscrewed one, I unscrewed one of those leveling feet, took it to Home Depot, and they've got the thing on the wall where it's like, what size screw and what thread, you know, is it? And so I found the thread pattern and the size of the screw, and then I went online and ordered, just ordered them off Amazon. And they just fit, just screwed right in, it was great. It's crazy, it's crazy, I'm living the dream.

Ian Landsman (53:23.209)
Mm.

Ian Landsman (53:33.403)
That's crazy. That's just so interesting. Cause I have like this night. So my office is directly across the street from Bassar College. And so I can look over at the college and stuff, but like where my desk is, I don't necessarily have like the best view and sometimes the lights in weird spots. So like if I was on wheels, I could be moving around by the treadmill base. I can put it on top of that.

Aaron (53:42.094)
Cool.

Aaron (53:51.79)
No problems.

Yep, yep, so, yeah, so that's out there. In here, the desktop is not Ikea countertop, it is Ikea butcher block island. So, the Ikea countertop is, you know, whatever, countertop depth, whatever that is, 32, 36 inches, whatever. So, it's not super deep for a desk, right? But it's great for a mobile desk, hang space,

Ian Landsman (53:55.881)
Man, you're just out there inventing shit.

Ian Landsman (54:09.609)
Okay, I like those.

Aaron (54:25.006)
but for an actual desk, it's a little shallow. So I got an Ikea kitchen island, which is like super deep. I mean, we're talking four feet or more. It was, however, too long. And so I zipped 18 inches off of the side. But that's what I use. That's what I put on top of the autonomous legs in the studio, because I've got a whole like white and...

Ian Landsman (54:27.977)
Okay.

Ian Landsman (54:31.881)
Yep.

Ian Landsman (54:35.721)
Hehehehe

Ian Landsman (54:41.577)
Nice.

Aaron (54:51.566)
white and wood thing going on in here. And so now everything, everything matches. So we're all, we're all Ikea. I just, Ikea just fitted out this whole space. Love it.

Ian Landsman (54:54.089)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Landsman (55:00.329)
I do love IKEA. I love IKEA. It's such a great place. The only thing I don't like, I don't like their chairs, like office chairs too much, well it's been a long time since I looked at them, but everything else IKEA. Yeah, everything in my office is IKEA. I love IKEA. It's like you go there, you get stuff. It's great. I did notice you didn't attach your monitor to the desk. Now why, why is that?

Aaron (55:07.598)
Mmm.

Aaron (55:20.494)
It's crazy, right? Here's the thought. So, you know, I've got this big desk and then behind the desk, I've got like a little, basically a little buffet table. It's one of the old shelves that used to be behind here until I decided no shelves. So how about these janky legs? And now I've got just like a little, you know, 10 inch table that runs along the wall behind my desk. So.

Ian Landsman (55:26.537)
Mm.

Ian Landsman (55:33.609)
Mm -hmm.

Aaron (55:44.11)
my monitor and my camera and my secondary monitor, my confidence monitor, are all attached to that buffet table instead of this desk. The reason I didn't attach the camera to the desk is because when I type, the camera wobbles and it looks bad, it just looks really bad. And so that was always gonna be back there, but then attaching the monitor back there gives me the ability to swing the monitor.

Ian Landsman (55:54.537)
Mm.

Ian Landsman (56:00.393)
Just shaking it.

Aaron (56:12.942)
all the way to the side and then lower the camera and do like a, do kind of like a talking head with like, you know, three quarters of the desk in the shot. Exactly. So if I want to show some stuff or not be like screencasting and doing more of the like sitting at my desk vlogging kind of thing, I have that, I have that ability with this setup. So that does preclude me from standing in here, which I'm fine. I'm fine with, I don't really care. Yeah.

Ian Landsman (56:17.929)
Ah.

Ian Landsman (56:22.313)
if you wanna show some stuff or...

Ian Landsman (56:30.793)
Right.

It's not a big deal, yeah. Interesting. And how do you secure this buffet table? Cause that sounds like a lot of heavy stuff. Is it attached to the wall or counterweighted?

Aaron (56:46.286)
A lot of heavy stuff, yeah, a lot of heavy stuff leaning outwards. Well, it's fine so far, but I will confess as long as my apartment manager isn't listening, I did attach that to the wall. So I built an entire wall out of two by fours that doesn't touch the wall at all, but this little buffet table, it's like, I gotta screw that to the wall. So it's screwed into the wall, yeah.

Ian Landsman (56:52.489)
Or it's just been okay so far.

Ian Landsman (57:02.473)
Okay, yeah.

Ian Landsman (57:11.113)
Yeah, you got to. I mean, that's fine. People put stuff on their walls. It's, you know, it's fine.

Aaron (57:15.47)
It's fine, I actually, I did the don't put a nail or screw in the wall on that, it kind of has a bit so that I can, like, it's gonna make good YouTube content, but the guy, the leasing agent was like, dude, I don't care if you hang a TV, like you can do whatever you want as long as you fix it before you move out. It's like, oh, yeah, I guess that makes sense. People hang TVs, don't they?

Ian Landsman (57:22.729)
Right?

Ian Landsman (57:30.601)
Right? Yeah.

Yeah, right. And now...

Aaron (57:37.39)
I still think of all the crazy stuff that I've done. I still think I'm probably in the top 2 % of good tenants in this complex. I've gotta be. I've gotta be. I'm walking down the hall and I'm smelling weed. People's dogs are throwing up in the hallway and they don't clean it up. And I'm like, I'm an insane person, but I'm the best tenant this place has ever seen. It's crazy.

Ian Landsman (57:45.385)
Well, I'm sure, you have to be.

Ah.

Ian Landsman (57:54.441)
But.

Ian Landsman (58:00.361)
See now, I thought this place was high up, but now I'm taking this place down a notch. If there's puking dogs, puking dogs in the hallway is maybe not ideal. Ah.

Aaron (58:05.486)
It is high up. It is high up. Yes. Look at the freaking kibble. Kibble puked all over the hallway and somebody just walked off. I'm like, we're living in a society here. So yeah, no, don't like that one bit.

Ian Landsman (58:17.193)
I don't like that. I don't like that. But yeah, nowadays to hang a TB, right? Like a big one is big 65 inch, 75 inch TBs. I'm sure people are still putting even in apartments and stuff like many things got 10 screws and a big plate and like, it's not like a one nail. It's a huge thing with big holes. So yeah, exactly. So yeah, I'm sure you'll be fine with your one hole and you're not even.

Aaron (58:29.518)
Yeah.

Aaron (58:34.67)
Yeah, you're putting lag bolts into the wall. Yeah.

Aaron (58:43.15)
Yeah, I was -

Ian Landsman (58:44.361)
You live in there 40 hours a week if that, so like you're not even messing up the carpet. They're not even going to have to replace the carpet or anything. They're going to be like, oh, this guy's like, yeah, you're not making a mess of the fridge. Like nothing spilled in there from the kids.

Aaron (58:51.47)
No, they're not gonna have to do anything. It's so great. Yeah.

Nope. Nope, not a thing. Yeah. So I still think I'm a model tenant.

Ian Landsman (59:06.889)
think you are so far. We'll see. You never know.

Aaron (59:09.87)
We'll see, I may get kicked out, but that's good plot for the content anyway, so we'll see. All right.

Ian Landsman (59:13.481)
All right, we got one more thing on the formal list that you put on here, give it to us.

Aaron (59:19.662)
All right, so here's the deal. I got a good life, right? Great life, great life, you know, loving family, lots of great kids. I will say, there are two people that I look at and I'm like, I don't really wanna trade places with anyone, but I kinda wanna trade places with you right now. First one, first one, person I want to be.

Ian Landsman (59:24.553)
Mm. Very good.

Aaron (59:46.734)
is my two year old daughter at about 7 .30 p .m. So I put the kids to bed, I put the kids to bed every night. It's kind of like convincing. I'm doing my best negotiations in there. I'm putting socks on hands and clipping toenails and I'm like, okay, there's literally nothing else you can ask me to do. It's time to go to bed, I'm going to leave now. I walk out, put them to bed at seven, walk out, 7 .30, check the monitor.

Ian Landsman (59:51.241)
Okay.

Ian Landsman (01:00:01.321)
Right.

Ian Landsman (01:00:08.137)
Right.

Aaron (01:00:15.566)
This is every night, this is every single night. 7 .30, check the monitor. My two -year -old daughter is laying amongst, gotta be 30 stuffed animals, right? Stuffed animals everywhere. She's carved out a little hole in the middle, and she's in this little hole of stuffed animals everywhere. She's laying down, she's talking, she's playing. She looks so happy and so comfortable and cozy, and it's like.

Ian Landsman (01:00:40.777)
Yeah.

Aaron (01:00:41.742)
It's the end of the day, she doesn't have anywhere to go, she's just playing, she's talking to her brother on the other side of the room, she's got her hands behind her head with her feet crossed over and she's in her long sleeve pajamas and it's like, I don't think I've ever seen someone be so comfortable and cozy and happy without a care in the world. She'll stay up for an hour and a half just like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you are living the dream, you're so relaxed.

Ian Landsman (01:00:52.041)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (01:00:58.345)
So relaxed.

Ian Landsman (01:01:08.873)
Yup.

Aaron (01:01:10.862)
This is, if I had $10 million, I would be as relaxed as her. But she's like, I've just, you know, I'm in my crib surrounded by all these stuffed animals and I got nothing to do, so I'm gonna play. Looks amazing.

Ian Landsman (01:01:15.433)
You

Ian Landsman (01:01:23.529)
And you know what's so unfortunate is that you don't even remember those years like you may have been like that at one point You know, you don't remember it doesn't help you now. You're not like a moment. I was so relaxed You don't remember anything like you're none of it so bad This is it I know We were just going through this I was looking at some photos for like kids yearbook stuff, whatever and I'm looking back at this like our trip to Europe where we took this big trip to Europe I've talked about on here before and it's like

Aaron (01:01:26.99)
You don't even remember it. Yeah. No. I don't remember anything. She's got it. She's got it as good as she'll ever have it. She won't remember. It's crazy.

Ian Landsman (01:01:53.769)
The oldest, you know, he remembers it mostly the middle one kind of mostly he like, didn't remember it like being dragged around. The youngest barely remembers it at all. It's like spent a zillion dollars on this huge trip to Europe. Like they don't remember it. And we were like, Oh, they're old enough now. They'll remember it. No, they don't remember it. They barely remember it. They remember like an impression of it, but like not the thing itself. And their takeaway is the exact opposite of the takeaway we want them to have, which is going traveling is a pain in the butt.

Aaron (01:02:06.638)
Yep. Still remember a thing.

Ian Landsman (01:02:22.697)
I just want to be home where it's nice and comfortable and fun. Like it's like, that's why we took you around to expose you to all this stuff. And your takeaway is the opposite takeaway. Now, hopefully in the future they might think about it differently, but yeah.

Aaron (01:02:25.87)
Yep. Yeah, that sounds right.

Aaron (01:02:32.302)
Yup.

Aaron (01:02:36.27)
Yeah, I feel like it probably, yeah, it left an impression on them even if they don't remember. You know, that's what I, yeah, that's what I tell myself. So the second person.

Ian Landsman (01:02:41.353)
Yeah, there's still no age.

Yeah. So two year old kid in their room, I I'm with, I'm with you on that. That's a good spot to be. Got the dolls. You got the stuff. Yep. Yep. I can go for that right now.

Aaron (01:02:48.622)
Two year old, yep, surrounded by levies, just living the dream, yeah. Second one, there's this guy, there's this guy that lives across the street from us, okay? So I love my life, wouldn't trade it for anything. This guy though, this guy, I think he's married, maybe he has a girlfriend or something, there's a woman that lives there as well. But I don't know how he does it.

Ian Landsman (01:03:00.905)
Okay?

Ian Landsman (01:03:12.809)
Okay.

Aaron (01:03:17.294)
This dude is watching TV 24 seven. Like the blinds in the front of his house, the blinds in front of his house are up. And so I'm up, you know, I'm dragging my tired, sorry, broken body out of bed at 7 30 or like out to the kitchen at 7 30 to cook for the kids. And I walk out, dude's already got like pre golf golf on at 7 30 on a Saturday morning. He's just like,

Ian Landsman (01:03:20.681)
Ha!

Ian Landsman (01:03:31.529)
Yep. Mm -hmm.

Ian Landsman (01:03:41.673)
He's a new master!

Aaron (01:03:45.326)
He's got this huge TV and he's got golf on and I'm like, it's 730 on a Saturday. What are you doing? And then, you know, I'm cleaning up peanut butter off the underside of the table and this guy's walking out at nine o 'clock with a cup of coffee and a dog and he's like, all right, I guess I'll just cruise around for a little bit. Easter weekend, I swear he spent all day outside just planting. He's just planting some flowers.

Ian Landsman (01:03:53.289)
in the dream.

Ian Landsman (01:04:03.497)
Yeah.

Aaron (01:04:14.414)
He's our age. I'm like, what life of luxury are you leading? He's watching TV all day, every day. This guy's having friends over. He's just like, he walks out with the dog's leash around his neck. The dog's not on a leash. He's got his AirPods in and a cup of coffee. He's just like looking around at stuff. I'm like, whenever you walk outside and you just look around at stuff, that is a life. That's a life of leisure.

Ian Landsman (01:04:14.569)
Just being.

Ian Landsman (01:04:20.969)
Yup.

Ian Landsman (01:04:25.737)
Friends over, wow.

Ian Landsman (01:04:39.145)
Who has time for that? Yeah.

Aaron (01:04:41.55)
That is a, he is a king. He might as well have a palace at Versailles. He's just walking around looking at stuff. So I don't want to be that guy, but I kind of want to be that guy. That guy's on easy street, man.

Ian Landsman (01:04:48.681)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (01:04:53.353)
There is, it's so funny, like the grass is greener on these things. And like, obviously like people without kids might have feelings about, well, I wish I had kids and all this stuff. But like, it's just those moments like this weekend for us, like, you know, obviously you're in the deep grind now of just like four kids and all that stuff. But, but like, um, even just for us where our kids are big and it's like. This weekend, our oldest went to see two colleges that he was accepted to. So my wife took him all weekend. They drove like 700 miles around the Northeast to these colleges. I'm home.

Aaron (01:05:06.734)
Mm -hmm.

Ian Landsman (01:05:23.241)
Everybody's sick where the middle kids got karate. Like, you know, and it was still, you know, we're trying to get everybody fed and all stuff. And it was like the younger one wants to have a friend over, but we're sick. So we're not going to have a friend over like the whole thing. And it was still even quasi relaxing by our standards ultimately. But it was just like, there's just like nonstop action. There's just never a dull moment of like somebody needs something. Somebody wants something. You got to be somewhere. The calendar has got 40 things on it.

Aaron (01:05:44.014)
Yes.

Ian Landsman (01:05:50.857)
And yeah, when you look at that guy across the street, you're like, huh, that guy, he could have slept till noon. He could have done whatever he wanted. And then he's going to watch golf. He's probably got a DVR where he DVRs golf. And he's like, still like 10 years back there. And he's like, I'm just going to DVR this golf here and I'm going to watch it, skip the commercials when I get home. And like, he's got a whole plan.

Aaron (01:05:55.31)
Yep.

Aaron (01:06:05.87)
Last night, maybe last night or the night before, I was doing something and it's, I just feel like such a creeper. I was looking across the street, his blinds are up in the front, his blinds are up in the back. So I see him and his wife in the backyard gardening and a pizza is delivered to his front porch. And I'm like, this son of a, he's having pizza, he's chilling all weekend. And I thought,

Ian Landsman (01:06:18.473)
Hahaha!

Ian Landsman (01:06:26.153)
Hahaha!

Aaron (01:06:31.534)
I wonder, he's in the backyard. I bet I could sneak over there and grab the pizza before he knows it's here.

Ian Landsman (01:06:35.049)
Steal the pizza and drop two kids off. Like just like take these two kids for a couple hours. Yeah. Oh man.

Aaron (01:06:40.686)
Yeah! Yeah!

So I'm telling my wife about wanting to be Amelia and this guy across the street. And she says, you know, whenever I'm like watching TV and someone on TV is watching TV, I think, man, it must be good to be them. That looks like so much fun. I'm like, wait, you're doing the thing that the person on TV is doing. She's like, I know, but they just look so much happier.

Ian Landsman (01:07:04.169)
Ha ha ha.

That is so funny.

Aaron (01:07:15.31)
I look so much cozier!

Ian Landsman (01:07:17.577)
whole theory that like, I think even still your your age group would probably fit this of like, the shows that we had as kids, where it was like all these sitcoms and like Seinfeld aside, like they were all like happy and everything ended happy and everybody got what they wanted and all the families were happy and like all this stuff like just did us all like such as this service of like setting these expectations for what your family's supposed to be what your life is supposed to be and it's like

Aaron (01:07:40.462)
No, there's no nice neat wrap up at the end.

Ian Landsman (01:07:45.481)
Not everything doesn't get solved instantly at the end of the episode. Like in your real life, like there's more going on. Yeah. What's your theory about this? This is the thing that freaks me out that you brought up here. I'm not a fan of the TV that faces out the window in a direction where a lot of people will see it. Like I don't like that vibe.

Aaron (01:07:59.758)
No, no hate that hate that not if not a fan of being able to see through the entire house either that that weirds me out a little bit But yeah having the TV having the TV that faces out and then also keeping your blinds up So everybody can see what you're watching all the time Yeah

Ian Landsman (01:08:09.961)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (01:08:14.185)
A lot of visibility.

Ian Landsman (01:08:21.705)
Yeah, it's like people over my shoulder watching. But then that's how carefree this guy is, right? He's so carefree. It's like, whatever. You want to look over my shoulder and watch him golf? Go for it. I don't care. I'm chilling.

Aaron (01:08:28.654)
Yeah, if you want to look over your shoulder and be jealous, yeah, that's great, but yeah, I don't want that. So I do like having the big windows that look out though. Like in the place where we're renting, we've got this big bay window that looks out into this guy's living room, but it's still, it's like, oh, it's so nice. I'm, you know, keep these windows open.

Ian Landsman (01:08:34.697)
Yeah, it's not for me either.

Ian Landsman (01:08:39.753)
Yes, I like the big windows.

Ian Landsman (01:08:48.137)
Oh, wait a minute. So what's the update on the second house, the under construction house.

Aaron (01:08:54.286)
The second house, but not the apartment. So I'm trying to remember all the properties under management. Yeah, okay. So yeah, that makes sense. At some point, it is almost done, which it's been almost done for forever. But we now have cabinets and we have countertops. All the walls are closed. The bathroom tile is not done.

Ian Landsman (01:08:57.801)
Yes. The one you're going to move into at some point, presumably.

Ian Landsman (01:09:11.017)
Okay.

Aaron (01:09:22.382)
and painting is not done. So they still have a good portion to go. Our lease at this rent house was up on May 1st, which I thought, you know, when I started this project, I thought, that's an incredible amount of time. What a hilarious amount of lead time we've given ourselves. You know, now it's April 15th and it's not done yet. So we extended our lease by one month, but we did not tell our contractor. So.

Ian Landsman (01:09:26.377)
There's a little bit to go.

Ian Landsman (01:09:38.121)
I'm out.

Ian Landsman (01:09:44.073)
Alright.

Ian Landsman (01:09:50.217)
Right? Yeah. So you put, he's got to hustle.

Aaron (01:09:50.734)
As far as our contractor knows, we're still drop dead on May 1st. Yeah, because the dude told me it would be done in January. It's freak. Come on, man.

Ian Landsman (01:09:59.817)
Did you redo the kitchen too? Yeah, while you're in there, you gotta do the kitchen, yeah. How many bedrooms?

Aaron (01:10:02.446)
Yeah, kitchen, kitchen and master bath and yeah. It is five bedrooms. Got it, yep. Yep, and it has an upstairs, so we're gonna have to be going up and down the stairs, yeah. But it's gonna be kinda nice.

Ian Landsman (01:10:12.041)
So you got the full coverage. Yeah, actually full coverage, yeah. Nice. That's nice. It's annoying with the kids, cause they're little and you'll be up and down the stairs all the time, but it is nice to have the separation, like, yeah.

Aaron (01:10:26.414)
Yeah, I think so. You'll have to come see it when you come to Lyricon.

Ian Landsman (01:10:31.145)
So I'm talking about, I like it. I will be there. Hopefully it's done by then. We'll see. We'll see if it's ready.

Aaron (01:10:33.006)
That's right. Boy, if it's not done by then, I am bankrupt. So yeah, exactly. I'll be walking across the street and telling that guy I'm moving in. Yeah.

Ian Landsman (01:10:38.089)
You'll be coming to live with me. You'll be up here living in New York for a couple months. Oh boy. All right, man. Anything else we need to cover?

Aaron (01:10:50.446)
Just one follow -up that I want to cover, lost in the weeds of all, just a huge amount of email that we get to mostly technical, I don't know, you'll have to tell us later, was a gift card to Chick -fil -A from Josh Hurt. And you know what? I love Chick -fil -A. I go to Chick -fil -A all the time. So what a nice guy, what a nice gesture. I haven't used it yet, but I did add it to my CF mobile app.

Ian Landsman (01:10:52.777)
Yeah.

Ian Landsman (01:11:00.52)
We do get a lot of emails.

What was the technical pod?

Ian Landsman (01:11:08.169)
us.

Ian Landsman (01:11:12.105)
Worked out. Was it delicious? Have you used it yet?

Aaron (01:11:19.598)
So I'm ready, I'm ready to go. So thank you so much for that. That's very unnecessary and very, very kind.

Ian Landsman (01:11:20.265)
Okay.

Ian Landsman (01:11:26.889)
And we are caught up on follow -up. I've emailed everybody back. And we do have a couple queued up to discuss still that we will try to hit next time here. So yes, that was awesome. People have been so nice. People are so nice to you. It's like, it's great to see. Yeah. You bring up, you put out the good vibes and the good vibes come back. Yeah, I think that's true. So, and now I'll make it to see you up on your feet, which I love. You're out there.

Aaron (01:11:41.294)
People are so nice to me. It's crazy.

Aaron (01:11:47.022)
I like to think so.

Aaron (01:11:53.326)
That's right.

Ian Landsman (01:11:55.241)
starting anyway, we're getting there. Things are happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love it. All right, man. Well, this has been a good one, everybody. Thanks for joining us. You can check us out, mostlytechnical .com, mostlytechnicalpod on Twitter, and mostlytechnicalpodcast at gmail .com. So if you have any feedback, hit us up there. Thanks to these sponsors. And we will see you next week, if all goes to plan. Thanks a lot.

Aaron (01:11:57.614)
We're getting there, it's gonna work, we're getting there. All signs point to yes.

Aaron (01:12:24.846)
See ya.