14: Nobody Uses Trucks For That
You're listening to Mostly Technical, which is brought to you by Lara Jobs, the official Laravel job board, and Screencasting .com, where you can learn how to create high quality screencasts Faster than ever. Now, Ian and Aaron.
Aaron:Hello. Hello. I feel like I, I've Seen you a bunch recently. I know.
Ian:It was we're gonna turn this into a daily podcast. I don't know.
Aaron:Seriously, breaking news only.
Ian:Gosh. Jeez. Yeah. By the way, the special episode, I'd like to throw in a little wrinkle to the audience. You know?
Ian:They think they know our schedule. Boom. Special episode.
Aaron:We get the most popular man on the Internet.
Ian:Yes. We got Yeah.
Aaron:That was
Ian:fun. Connections.
Aaron:That was that was a lot of fun.
Ian:Yeah. And we had Kayla before that, so we had 2 interviews. Are are we turning into an interview show? Let's answer that question.
Aaron:The answer is no, but I'll be honest, It's pretty tempting. 1, 1, it's a lot it's a lot of fun. You know?
Ian:It's a
Aaron:lot of fun to have other people on. But 2, it just the numbers look so good. Number go up, man.
Ian:Number go up and to the right. It's amazing.
Aaron:Yeah. It's it's it's tempting, but I will say, I feel like there were so many shows that I used to listen to that then just turned into interview shows that had the same people on that were on every other show. Right. And so it was like these bootstrap shows that used to be, like, ride alongs, and then it was, hey. We're gonna do interviews because it's easier, and somebody's doing the interview rounds, and it's like, oh, shoot.
Aaron:Now every show I listen to that week That's exactly what I'm talking
Ian:about. Yeah. Exactly. I hate that.
Aaron:Hate that. So I don't wanna I don't wanna become that. But I do think it's fun every now and then to have somebody come on and just, like, be a part of the show and not do, like, you know, the big interview thing.
Ian:Yeah. I think that's the perfect balance. Right? It's like when you can just drop somebody in once in a while who's just, like, a good Fit, and it's fun, and it's interesting to listen to. That's great.
Ian:Like, not forcing it. That's the thing with the interview show is you end up, like, having to force it. It's like, how do I find 52 interesting people to thing people to be on this show. You know? And then so you're like, okay.
Ian:Well, the Rando just has something to talk about this week because they've launched something or whatever. And then you're like, okay. Well, I guess we'll have Rando on Because they got something to talk about, and then you're down that road of it's super boring and all that. So Yeah.
Aaron:It's super boring. You're doing backstory the whole time. Yeah. It's just like, This is a very fun to listen to.
Ian:And both of these guests really tied into the show because we've been on LiveWire a lot. We've been on React a lot, and so I feel like that was Awesome fit. And if we can just, you know, find people like that who add to what we've been discussing recently, I feel like that's a A good idea, but not, not forcing it. Yeah. We had a lot of great feedback on those episodes.
Ian:Tons of people tweeting us. The Creator of React chimed in, thought the episode was great. Know.
Aaron:That was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Dan Abramov quoted me and said, like, This is a great episode. I really enjoyed the way they talked about it, and I was like, oh, wow.
Aaron:You're kind of a big deal.
Ian:No. He was like, we should turn it into a blog post. I don't
Aaron:know if
Ian:we're actually gonna do that, but that
Aaron:Oh, we're definitely not, but Sam should. Yeah.
Ian:Yeah. Sam should.
Aaron:Go for it, Sam. It's your content. I'm not doing it. Yeah. I thought that was that was interesting.
Aaron:And then, I thought Caleb's podcast was was great. Yeah. What are your Having let it simmer for a little bit, I I listened to the part where I wasn't on it.
Ian:Alright. So I
Aaron:got to listen to the components part
Ian:Yes.
Aaron:A little bit of that. And then some people linked us to some component libraries that were like flex UI or something like that.
Ian:Right.
Aaron:That's true. I linked To, Adam Wadden tweet where he's like, I've been working on this combo box for I thought I was done for the past 2 weeks and stuff keeps Coming up. So what's the final what's the final Ian take on the components?
Ian:I definitely well, I mean, just in general, I think livewire Components are a great idea because unlike all these other component libraries, it's like people are reinventing the wheel a lot on a lot of component libraries right now, but one that's Dedicated to LiveWire, isn't reinventing the wheel so heavily because there isn't there there's a one, like, one kind of sizable open source one, but it's Not that big, and you have to, like, adopt a lot of its other philosophy. And then there's a few other, like, smatterings of things, but there's not much out there for, like, pure live wire components. And obviously I think Caleb will do a great job with it. So I'm I'm all boarded components. Whether or not, like how much he integrates like other things into it, whether it's react or other things.
Ian:I don't know. But, yeah. I think I think it's gonna happen, and I think it'll be a big success for him. So I'm excited. I mean, some other stuff that's even come out of component talk, it's like the next day or whatever.
Ian:He released, The anchor plug in, I don't know if you saw that, but
Aaron:I did. You sound real excited about that.
Ian:Yeah. The anchor plug in's super awesome. So it's just like a way it's basically Floating UI, I think it's called. It's kind of like a Mhmm. Alpine wrapper for this existing positioning UI.
Ian:But there's so many things where, like, special Boxes or popovers or special inputs, you want something to pop up. And, you know, the way Alpine does it natively, like, you could kind of do it, but it doesn't like react automatically if the screen changes and whatever. There's just weird little things that go on with it. And with this, it's like, boom, perfect. Like you put this 1 tag in It all is magical.
Ian:It works perfectly.
Aaron:It has collision detection for, like, the edge of the screen.
Ian:That stuff is built into it, And just was, like, really smooth and everything too. So that so already we've gotten some some upside in the community from the idea of Future components, with the XAnchor, which I'm sure is part of his thinking there, and, I've already used it in the new HubSpot stuff I'm doing to do custom stuff. So
Aaron:Oh, no.
Ian:Definitely, if you haven't seen XAnchor, check that out because it's really, really good. Got the logo Dang,
Aaron:that was fast. You released last week, and you already you already got it installed and used in it?
Ian:Literally, as he's building stuff, I'm like, dude, just send me, like, just send me whatever you have. Like, as just building it.
Aaron:Any zip files of that code back there?
Ian:I've already got a zip file, like, I'm I'm getting I got the inside track at a few things here, but let me tell you. I'm like, just send it to me. Cause I'm like right in the middle of like, I'll be your Guinea pig on things. Just like, just send me whatever you have because I just Just want it all built in there wonderfully and built by the man himself. You know, it just works so nice when because he knows all the deep internals of everything, you know?
Ian:It's like when I'm trying to hack stuff in, I don't know the deep internals or anything, but he just knows all those deep internals, and it's so good. So yeah. So, some of that's Ongoing, but, yeah.
Aaron:He's gonna get fabulously wealthy off of LiveWire components.
Ian:I was just gonna ask you that. So what's your take on the, LiveWire?
Aaron:My take. Yeah. I think, fabulous wealth. Yeah. I think it's gonna work.
Aaron:I think he's the only person that can do it Right. Because of what you said and because of his distribution. I think the trick is the it's a quagmire. I really think it's a quagmire of, like, With even just the combo box, doing a combo box well is is a huge amount of work. And so Yep.
Aaron:You know, I don't know how much he can, like, I I think he's he's out on the idea of leveraging, like, Radix or Shadzian or something, like, wrapping it.
Ian:Probably.
Aaron:But I wonder how much he could just, like, learn from it in quotes, which means Right. Take it. You know? Like, how how much can he just take and Convert to Alpine and just like
Ian:core out.
Aaron:Yeah. Look down into their dirty secrets of make this work on IE 11 and this work on, You know, Firefox and just be like, oh, great. I don't have to learn that, you know, independently. I can just take what they learned and translate it to Alpine. So I think he's gonna pull it off.
Aaron:I think it's it's just gonna be really hard, but Yep. I think he'll get paid for it, so that's good.
Ian:Yeah. I mean, what's even like the tweet Adam had about, I mean, they are using React ARIA. So, like, they are building on top of an existing I don't know if React ARIA has the full combo box or he's, like, Merging different components of it together into a combo box. But either way, like, even when building on top of a semi established Framework for this stuff, you can have issues and edge cases and all that. So definitely but, you know, on the flip side, that's what you're getting paid for too.
Ian:Like Right. Right? Like, I mean
Aaron:paid to eat glass so that other people don't have to.
Ian:Exactly. That's the value. Like, if it was easy, then I wouldn't pay you anything. Right? But it's not easy.
Ian:So
Aaron:be 10 open source versions of it already.
Ian:Right. Exactly.
Aaron:So Like, chat with my PDF. It must be easy because there are a 100 open source versions. So backing up 2 seconds is Yeah. Is are are Tailwind Labs, are they abandoning headless UI, you think?
Ian:No, I don't think so. I think that came up recently, I think on Twitter or somewhere. And Adam was addressing that with somebody. So I don't think they said they're not abandoning it because also, they also wanna support view and that end of their their world. So I think, they're kind of in it for that, but I think it is mostly
Aaron:for that one.
Ian:So good. I haven't used it, but it does seem good. I do yeah. I don't know. It's just like it doesn't have Everything.
Ian:Right? So then that's always led me to, like, well, I'll just use Radix, which has almost everything. Even it doesn't have everything, But it's got more of everything. And with the components and react, you can just pretty easily mix and match. Not that big a deal, so you can pull something from somewhere else or whatever.
Ian:But, yeah. I don't know. I don't think they're letting it die, but I think it's just gonna be just another one. I I'm pretty sure they're not using it on their new stuff or at least not. Maybe they are using catalyst stuff?
Ian:Yeah. Is that the
Aaron:name of the new stuff?
Ian:Catalyst. Yeah. Maybe they are using the combo box. So they did have a combo box in headless UI, so maybe they're using some stuff and the other stuff. I don't know.
Ian:That would be interesting to find out.
Aaron:How much is completionism a big deal with these component libraries? Are you pretty comfortable mixing and matching?
Ian:Yeah. I think, the react ones anyway worked really well mixed and matched. Like, I think just based on, like, kind of the foundational elements of react, like, you can compose them, which like a whole thing, obviously, like you can compose them like pretty easily and not run into too much trouble generally. So yeah, I think that is possible. But in terms of general completions with library like, in the Livewire library, I feel like that needs to be pretty complete.
Aaron:Like Me too.
Ian:I don't think it could just be, like, 10 components. Like, maybe it could start that way, but I think it needs to be fleshed out into, like, something pretty sizable. Would be mine.
Aaron:Yeah. Yeah. I would think so, just because there is no, like, Radix or Shad scene to fall back on.
Ian:Yeah. And even if some of them are not like, live wire ish really at all, like it's really just like a blade file essentially that's doing some Alpine stuff. Like some of them might just be things like that. Like here's an accordion. Like it's got nothing to do with live wire at all.
Ian:It's not live wire in any way. It's not feeding back to the server, but It's just part of this library for completeness, and I can just know I have an accordion as part of this even though it's not doing any server side stuff.
Aaron:Written to the same standard and taste Right. The rest of my component library. Exactly.
Ian:And however, I customize things. I customize this the same way as I customize the other stuff, and whatever, you know, whatever the syntax, all that. Yeah. So it can all be the same, I think. And that stuff's easy too.
Ian:Like, he already has that stuff. So it's just about wrapping it up Yeah. You know, bundling it together there. So I don't think that'll be too hard. The hard stuff's definitely gonna be your date pickers and your combo boxes and, you know, over time, and there's other types of components that I wish a lot of these things had, like, a dual, like, a ever see, like, where it's, like, twos 2 Big select boxes and you can list movers, I think they're called.
Ian:Like, you can move
Aaron:the feed.
Ian:Like, there's a lot of these other components that even these other frameworks don't have, and it's like, oh, I'd love a mic component library that'll be able to handle some of these more educate or trees, like, really good trees. Yep. More like b to b type stuff, not really stuff Consumer apps would use so much, but
Aaron:Well, that's when you get into, like, that's when you get into these other worlds that have real component libraries like The, you know, the .net world or the Java world. They have a lot of $1,000 a year a seat per developer. Right. And it's it's like, You know, you've got hundreds of components, and you have all that wacky stuff like you're talking about. Because it is truly like somebody working in the in the guts of AT and T, And they need some, you know, random b to b component, and they're like, yeah.
Aaron:We'll pay, you know, $5,000 a year for our 5 developers to access this. I think component libraries are so tempting as a developer to want to do because it's so, like, it's so fun, And it's so like, there's so many discrete little things that you get to work on. Yep. And each one has its own little, like, own little universe of problems, and the boundaries are well defined. And so you get to work on all these you get to fiddle.
Aaron:I feel like you get to do a lot of fiddling. So it seems like a whole lot of fun to, you know, to write 1 or put 1 together until you interact with, like, oh, how do I do styling? How do I do props? Do I do how do I do how do I
Ian:do this?
Aaron:Right. I wanna do that.
Ian:Yeah. Or browsers and all that stuff. Like, it's the worst case scenario for browser stuff. But, Let's see. That is interesting about components too.
Ian:There's, like, those 3 layers. There's, like, open source. There's, like, buy once or maybe annual, but it's still cheap, which is kinda like what I think the live wire ones are probably gonna be at least initially, right? Like it's $300, whether that's once or whether that's a year or it's something like that. And there's not necessarily like per seat limits and stuff.
Ian:Right. And then there are those, like, really big frameworks, that are like, yeah, it's like $1,000 a developer's seat a year and but it has everything. We, we have actually bought one of those for the old HubSpot, or the current HubSpot, for the, just for the date picker. Like I literally pay like $800 a year for a day picker, because there was the only one that would do whatever we had different limitations. He had it.
Ian:And we were not even doing like airline stuff or anything like there's not even like range selecting and stuff in our case, but it was just to make it work. It was, like, the best one. And so, yeah, people favorite stuff.
Aaron:That was the original thesis behind Hammerstone that we did not officially pull off, but it was like, if we can do this one thing super well, then people would pay for it. Because at Resolute, the company that I used to work at for many, many years, We paid, I think, $1,000 a seat a year for a grid or a spreadsheet Right. Implementation. We used a hands on table, which is incredibly good. And it was just, like, all they did was the spreadsheet part.
Aaron:They didn't do any of the, like, syncing to the back end or anything like that. It was just presentational grid, and it was it was a great component. But they had, like, a team of I think they had a team of, like, 15 full time people working on it. It's like y'all are making 1,000,000 of dollars a year off of this one component. Yep.
Aaron:That it's just it feels I feel like it's pure it's like the developer thinks of it as pure developing. Like, I'm just gonna work on this one component. Right.
Ian:I
Aaron:don't have to worry about all this other, like, you know, product market fit. I just need to build a component. And if it's good enough, people will pay me for it.
Ian:Yeah. There are those little niche but
Aaron:it seems yeah.
Ian:It's a sometimes just the right thing for that. Yeah. Even agree. Date 1 we use is, like, part of a bigger library, we just use only the date. Mhmm.
Ian:But, like, yeah, that is just, like, literally a single component, but it's like I think developers and bootstrapper type developers especially get caught up in, like, the price of things like, like, nobody's gonna pay for that, whatever. But it's like no. Like, building that spreadsheet component, you're literally talking about thousands of hours of development time, and you're not even gonna do it as well after talking about it.
Aaron:Much worse version. Right.
Ian:So it's like yeah. Because so I can just work. It's worth $1,000, and I could be productive 5 minutes from now and building the actual whatever business thing I'm supposed to be building with this, not off on the side quest of, like, building our own internal spreadsheet builder, which is, you know, obviously insane. Right? So Yeah.
Ian:Yeah. So you're like, boom. No problem. $1,000. Great.
Ian:Like, Not even a question. We're just gonna buy it without thinking about it. Yep. So, yeah, if you can find those niches where you can where there's not like the the problem with some of those niches is, like, the open source versions eat you up because it's like, well, there's this open source version that's, like, really good, and it's good enough whatever. I'm just gonna use it without even having to go to my boss to ask for $1,000 or whatever.
Ian:But some of these things like that is not the case, like, Where this this is just better than those other alternatives.
Aaron:Yeah. It's tempting. I hope I hope Caleb pulls it off. I think he will. I think he has good enough taste that he can do it.
Ian:Yeah. It's gonna be good. I'm excited for it. Alright. What should we
Aaron:do next?
Ian:I got a new car.
Aaron:You got a new car?
Ian:Got a new car.
Aaron:What did you get? Cybertruck?
Ian:I I think I got 2 Cybertrucks. I got a matte black Cybertruck. Did you see that thing going around?
Aaron:I did. I've got thoughts on it.
Ian:But this sucks. Should we talk Cybertruck quick? Let's just Let's talk
Aaron:let's talk Cybertruck real Real quick. Sorry to sorry to preempt your big news. Oh, that's cool. So Cybertruck, I will start by saying not my preferred shape of a vehicle. I don't love it.
Ian:Definitely not.
Aaron:So A Janelle. I don't I don't love it. Here's the thing here's the thing here's my meta analysis on it. Everyone right now is, like, making fun of the build quality and dunking on how it looks and saying it looks really stupid, and I just don't have the energy for that. Like, I can look at the truck and say, like, I'm not gonna buy that.
Aaron:But I can also look at, you know, whatever the The Kia Soul or any, you know, those those truck those cars that look like a box on wheels, I can look at that and say, who am I gonna buy that?
Ian:I think
Aaron:the thing I the thing I'm the thing I'm down on is people, like, saying that it looking at it and saying, You know, they're gonna go broke. This is the stupidest thing ever. Look how bad the build quality is. And I'm like Oh, yeah.
Ian:I don't think
Aaron:I mean Yeah. It it it's got, like, the the, what, almost the most valuable company in the world in Tesla. It's like, yeah, they do things too fast. They rush things out the door. He drives drives a like, he his personality is a little too hard driving, but, like, I don't know.
Aaron:They kinda pull stuff off, don't they? Yeah. You don't have to like the truck. They pull stuff off. So that's my meta analysis.
Aaron:I will not be buying 1 regardless of if they fix the build quality, but Right. That's my that's my take on it.
Ian:Yeah. It's just not a I'm a huge truck guy. I'm a Texas level truck guy. Wow. Love truck.
Ian:You wouldn't have guessed that. Right? But I love trucks.
Aaron:Have guessed that.
Ian:A big truck guy. Even though I don't haul gravel all day, I just feel like trucks are so Oh, that's not what trucks
Aaron:are for. I know. Nobody uses trucks for America.
Ian:No way. You got 3 kids, man. You got stuff to haul in the truck. There's always something I need a truck for. I haven't had a truck the last few years.
Ian:I missed it. But, yeah, cyber truck, like, it's not even that useful as a truck. It's kinda my main beef. Like, those edge, like, back being so angled, like, you can't put stuff Cross the back, like
Aaron:Mhmm. Oh, that's true.
Ian:I don't know. It hurts the trucking size compared to, like,
Aaron:an F150? Is it similar bed size?
Ian:I think it's similar to, like, crew cab type version of F 150. So to the smaller bed size, not like one of the real big beds, but, Yeah. I don't know. The only cool thing I dislike literally everything about the cyber truck. But the only cool thing I will say about it is I do like this idea of it being just a giant canvas for, like, custom graphics.
Ian:Like, if you wanna put some custom graphics on that thing, like, it's sort of cool for that since it's just like a big Square blank slate looking thing. So that's sorta interesting, but, yeah, not my cup of tea. So, but related, so I got a Rivian r one t, which is the Rivian truck.
Aaron:Rivian r one t.
Ian:Yeah. Rivian. So electric my first electric car back in the truck game, and if not having a truck like 2 years, which is making me crazy. It's very nice.
Aaron:It looks like a truck in.
Ian:Yeah. It's great. It looks like a truck, like a proper truck, but it's, you know, a little swoopier than kinda your f 150 is a little smaller than f 150.
Aaron:Little swoopier.
Ian:But still actually, it's still big. It's bigger than I thought it would be. Actually, it's it's I think it's even bigger. Like, I've had a couple ridgelines, Honda ridgelines. I think it's bigger than the Ridgeline was.
Aaron:This is cool. Alright. So talk me through talk me through the thought process here when you were, you were evaluating. Ian needs a new vehicle. How did we end up here?
Ian:Ian has had a lot of different vehicles over the years, I hate rebuying the same vehicles, and then that limits me. And then Interesting.
Aaron:I love rebuying the same thing.
Ian:Oh, I don't like it. I don't like yeah. It's like the socks. I don't know. I I like the I like the
Aaron:old variety. Spicer. You're such a
Ian:maximizer. Okay. Maximize.
Aaron:Okay. So, the Ridgeline was out because you'd already bought 1 at some
Ian:point. So that's all actually had 2. That was one where I broke my rules, and I had
Aaron:2 different imagine?
Ian:Different models. So one with the, like, original bridge line, and one was the next generation bridge line. So I couldn't go back there. So
Aaron:Okay.
Ian:Yeah. 1, the truck, And there's not really many options in this segment. That's the thing. If you don't want the, like because, like, the full I was thought thinking like a Tundra, but it's so huge. You know?
Ian:It's just like, I'm not I that's just too big. Like, then you get into, like, parking's annoying and whatever. Just big big truck problems, and I this, like, walk out the Tacoma,
Aaron:which is a step down.
Ian:Well, I've had a Tacoma, so that was mostly off the list. Yeah. But I do like the Tacoma a lot. It's a little like, for me, I'm so I'm 64, and I it's a little bit squatter than, like, a Ridgeline or the r one Toyota.
Aaron:Toyotas are not enormous. I have a 4 Runner, and I'm Right. I'm only 61, and I feel I feel a little bit hunched in that.
Ian:I think they might even be the same Brain? No. I think, I think that might be built on a Tacoma, like Oh. Body, if I recall. But, that would make sense.
Ian:So in there, it's a little, And, like, the tech is not like, they haven't updated tech in these things in forever. I don't know really why. Some was a little like, oh, like, you're in there with, like I think they have, like, now at least a little The one I had had, like, essentially no screen, but, so I don't know. So I was yeah. And that's, like, kind of it.
Ian:It's like the Ridgeline is a coma. There's the Ford Maverick, which is even smaller. I didn't really wanna go that small, or, like, the F150 or the lightning, which is electric f one 50, which is interesting, but, again, it's like full size truck, which I was didn't I was trying to at least be a little bit smaller than that. So, So anyway, yeah, ended up on and the other thing was Rivian has only previously been selling. So this is why I didn't do this before.
Ian:Like, they started with a Tesla kinda model essentially of, like, the Highest end. So it's, like, the only super high end. And I didn't want the highest end one. I didn't want the 4 motors. I didn't wanna go 0 to 60 in 3 seconds.
Ian:Like, whatever. I don't care about any of that. So You lose all
Aaron:their plywood out the back if you do that.
Ian:So they came out with a, cheaper. It's still not cheap, but the a lower end model, which only has 2 motors and, whatever. Some other things, whatever. I just got one. The only thing I have is like the large, which is like the medium sized battery pack, but they don't even make the small.
Ian:So it's still kinda like the cheapest you can get. But, so I got literally the cheapest r t r one t you can get. And, So
Aaron:let's talk range. So what do you get have you taken delivery of it?
Ian:Yeah. So I've been going around
Aaron:for a
Ian:couple weeks now. Yep.
Aaron:Alright. Let's talk first impressions, and then I wanna hear range.
Ian:1st impressions was very good. Yeah. It's really nice inside. I don't like it's like leatherette, which is not my favorite. My leather, more of a real leather man, but you know, it's fine.
Ian:1 pedal driving was really weird. Like, so I had to go to Brooklyn to pick it up. You don't know about the 1 pedal drive
Aaron:1 pedal driving.
Ian:Oh man. What? So Texas, they only have the gasoline vehicles. They're not they don't have the electric yet. So
Aaron:This is not a Texas thing. Cars have 2 pedals. What are you Talking about.
Ian:So it's got that still has 2 pedals, but you barely ever use the brake. So when you let off the gas, it breaks.
Aaron:And so it's actually The recharge?
Ian:Yeah.
Aaron:It doesn't re
Ian:it recharges. Yeah. So it's not really breaking. It's breaking with the Engine, I guess you'd say, or transmission. I don't know what's going on in there, but it's regenerative.
Aaron:Who can say for
Ian:sure? Breaker.
Aaron:Yeah. Just blow past it. Right.
Ian:We're past that now in the age of cars or having any idea what Bell, how anything works. So yeah. So used to that. So this was a weird, I've never driven one like that before, except for like a golf cart, which works the same way or whatever. But, so I'm in Brooklyn And we're this Rivian place is, like, in the bowels of Brooklyn, so it's really like where it's basically just like all warehouses and stuff and crowded streets and trucks on the road and People double parked, whatever.
Ian:So I'm like Lots
Aaron:of honking, lots of scaffolding, lots of I'm walking here.
Ian:No no scaffolding, actually. No scaffolding in Brooklyn. That's a Manhattan thing. But So, yeah. So figuring out the 1 pedal driving, like in this like little bit tougher environment was a little tricky, but we made it out and yeah, it's good.
Ian:I mean, I would say thinking about you have to think about the battery more than you do in a gas car. Think about the gas. Cause you're like, whatever. I could run this thing down to 2 miles. I know somewhere in 2 miles, like, there's a gas station, and it's not a problem.
Ian:And I don't have the home charger set up yet, so I can only do, like, Trickle charging from a regular outlet, which only gives you, like, I don't know, maybe, like, 20 miles in overnight or something like that.
Aaron:So Oh, jeez. That's nothing.
Ian:Yeah. So it's a little like I did 1 big trip in it already, so I had to, like, stop and Use a charger or I've used, 2 other chargers so far, and that's worked out fine, though.
Aaron:Like Do you have access to the Tesla Supercharger network?
Ian:So we will, and we do a little bit. So it's a certain number of Tesla stations already have the ability to charge other types of cars. And, And there's 1 not that far from me, like, 20 miles away. So I've been to that one, and it's on
Aaron:the edge of what you get with your trickle charge.
Ian:So, why are we happy to be you know, when you're out that way, it's like you have to think about it that way. Right? Well, I'm gonna be over there, so I guess I'll top up with the supercharger.
Aaron:So steam.
Ian:That, but next in 2024, Rivian will have access to all the Tesla network. So yeah. So then it'll be fine because those are pretty common around here. And I do have the thing getting installed at my house so that I have the faster charging at home. It's still not as fast as a high speed charger, but it's, like, 20 miles an hour, it'll charge.
Ian:So for me, that's overnight totally fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll put that is that?
Aaron:Like a 2 40 volt thing? Like a Like, washer dryer plug you gotta get installed or something?
Ian:You could do it as a plug, but safer to have it just hardwired. And since I don't have a plug there anyway, like, they're just gonna run it from the box To the that's right next to the garage, so it'll be pretty straightforward, than the Gotcha.
Aaron:Okay. Cool.
Ian:So it is nice to not go to gas stations.
Aaron:Are you doing it to save the Earth, or are you doing it because it's super cool? Okay. No.
Ian:I don't even think that's true. Like, I think that's all BS. Like, I don't think it's I think. Like, I mean, there's Yeah. You know, by the time you, like, build all these batteries and all this stuff, like, I don't think it's actually saving the earth per se.
Ian:I am a big fan indirectly of the, like I'm definitely not doing it for that, but I do like the idea of it pushing people towards nuclear. I'm a big nuclear energy fan. More nukes. We need nukes everywhere.
Aaron:Agreed.
Ian:That's the solution to every problem is nuclear energy. So whatever, the more I can help strain the grid, maybe they'll actually build some new nuclear plants in America at some point. But, So, yeah, not for that. I mean, I think they are just better cars. Like the electric does have some nice advantages, especially once the infrastructure, I do think it was, it is still an early adopter Type thing though, because there is the certain hassle factor that is, not there with a gas car, but,
Aaron:no.
Ian:But yeah. I do think, you know, it is just not it is nicer. Like, the acceleration's nice. Just like the tech is nice. I mean, the tech, some of it is like, You could put this tech in a gas car.
Ian:I don't know why for the most part, they don't put the tech in the gas car, but, so some of it is different in that way, but it's just nice. Like, whatever. I have a frunk and the frunk is awesome because like I can put stuff in a truck that's locked away instead of Having to just always make the bed work for everything, and there's another true have to get a bed
Aaron:you don't have to get a bed cover and lock to hide Right.
Ian:I hate bed covers, actually. Yeah. So, like, so, yeah, so far so good. I mean, obviously, they're like you know, there's a lot of benefits to that, not having an engine. It's safer and blah blah.
Ian:So We'll see how it goes so far so good. No trouble, digging it, but we'll see if you I've used the truck bed multiple times already. It's so nice to have a truck at the house. You have kids and you don't have a truck, you're making a big mistake, get a truck. Aaron, you need a truck.
Aaron:Well, we just got the minivan. Yeah. I don't know how many more vehicles we can
Ian:You gotta swap out the 4 Runner. What about the 4 Runner?
Aaron:Am I gonna become a truck guy?
Ian:Oh, the truck is so good. First of all, you live in Texas. You have to have a truck. Second of all, the truck is so good. You have 4 kids.
Ian:You must have a truck. Just required.
Aaron:Yeah. But, like, 4 kids can't fit in a truck.
Ian:It doesn't matter. It's not about us hauling the kids. It's about the Stuff. You're gonna
Aaron:be about the stuff.
Ian:Bringing stuff in, throwing stuff out, whatever, all this stuff. You're gonna need stuff. A truck makes stuff easier. Yeah. Trust me.
Ian:A few years from now, there's gonna be all this garbage and junk. Wife's gonna be yelling at you to get rid of this crap. You're gonna be trying to shove it in the back of their 4 Runner. That's always a disaster. Stuff leaking.
Ian:Like, you just need to
Aaron:try Yeah. Yeah. The the nasty garbage that leaks is That is the, like, primary use case for a truck.
Ian:Oh, it's so good that the truck's
Aaron:pounding the sheet about it. Plywood. A 4 by 8 sheet of plywood. Yes.
Ian:You're build your next shed quarters, you're gonna need Yeah.
Aaron:I know. I was filling up the 4 Runner with stuff that didn't fit, and I'm hanging out the back and trying to, like, tow strap it down so it doesn't fly out.
Ian:Just had a truck. You know, you don't have to worry about any of that. Just boom. Throw it in. It's done.
Aaron:I don't know. You go
Ian:to the beach. I mean, I'm a big beach, trucking beach guy. I know. On the beach, the kids in the back. There's nothing kids love being in the back of the truck.
Aaron:Kids do love being
Ian:in the back
Aaron:of the truck. So good. There's a 0% chance wife would let any of our kids ride in the back of a truck, at least not for, like, 15 years.
Ian:No. No. No. If you're on the beach, you're not going Fast. I I'm not a fan of, like, go down the road in the truck, but if you're just on the beach and you're going 15 miles an hour and you're bouncing and it's like The ocean.
Ian:It's so good.
Aaron:0% chance. Well, Glenn, I'll just I'll just re up on my 0% there.
Ian:Alright. So let's get a kid update. When are these kids coming?
Aaron:Boy, they're coming, aren't they?
Ian:Soon. Right? We're in November now.
Aaron:Soon. The Final day possible would be the day before Thanksgiving. So that would be, I think, 23rd. So we have a c section scheduled for the 23rd. Okay.
Aaron:But that's twins Deadline. Sort. Yeah. You don't have a choice. Yep.
Aaron:So 23rd, I think don't know that we'll make it that far. I think the 23rd would be 37 weeks, I think Mhmm. Is right. And I think with the first two, we actually Got pretty close to 37 weeks, but they're both measuring each child. Remember, there are 2.
Aaron:Each child is measuring six Pounds right now.
Ian:That's a lot of baby in there.
Aaron:It's a lot of baby. So it's great news because that means
Ian:Big health peonces.
Aaron:Yeah. Super viable. Maybe no NICU time at all. We didn't have any NICU time in the 1st round. Oh.
Aaron:And I think they came out at, like, 66 and six zero. Nice. So yeah, man. It could be I mean, it could be right now. Could be literally today.
Ian:Oh, man. How great would it be if she just bust in right now and is like, let's go.
Aaron:It'd make great content, but I'm not ready.
Ian:Yeah. You're never ready. Yeah. You're never ready. And no strong
Aaron:I know, but I'm not I'm, like, less than never ready right now. I'm just super not ready. This weekend, so Friday, PlanetScale had the day off. We do every 1st Friday is a day off, 1st Friday of the month. And so I drove down to Austin because there's, like, a group of Internet friends, bootstrappers that all We hang out in this this Slack chat, and once a year, we get together.
Ian:Right.
Aaron:And so they were in Austin this week, I think starting, like, on Wednesday and finishing up on, like, Sunday morning or something. And I was, you know, originally supposed to go and do this whole retreat thing, and then We found out we were pregnant with twins, and it's you know, they're due any second. So I drove down Friday morning and drove back Friday night because I'm like, I can't I can't be away be away. Yeah. Even 3 and a half hours away.
Aaron:Like, if, you know, it's midnight, and she's like, well, it's time to have these babies. Like, I can't be an You don't wanna miss
Ian:the babies. Yeah. That would be Goodness. So yeah. Little FaceTime in, though, a little FaceTime.
Aaron:Yeah. You know? Shook some hands, kissed some babies. It was good. It was good to see.
Aaron:They're all friends that I've known for many, many years. Some going on, like, Maybe 12 years now. And we do these retreats once a year, and it's it's really fun. It's a fun format. It's like, Beforehand, you're supposed to work up some slides of, like, where you're at with your business and what you need help with, and then each person gets 1 hour, like, moderated hot seat.
Aaron:Mhmm. And so the person goes up to the front. They have the TV. Everybody's sitting around kind of just, like, You know, drinking sodas and taking notes, and they go through their presentation. And then there's also a moderator that helps keep, you know, the peanut gallery on track instead of like because, you know, when you get a bunch of nerds together, we all, like, focus in on one thing, and then the person is like, hey.
Aaron:That's actually, like, 2% of my business, and I don't wanna talk about that thing. Right. And so the moderator is there to be the bad guy and be like, no. No. No.
Aaron:No. No. No. Y'all back up. We're trying to talk about this thing.
Aaron:And so, you know, I was only there for maybe 5 or 6 presentations. Oh, wow. But they probably did, yeah, they probably did, you know, 18 over the course of the for 3 or 4 days. And so it's super fun. And then we cater in all the foods.
Aaron:We don't have to go anywhere so that we don't waste any time, like, Trying to figure out where can we take 20 people. Right. And then at night, you just kinda hang out, and some people did an escape room. Lots of people just hung out, and I think some people brought, like, consoles, and we they played video games and stuff. Mhmm.
Aaron:So very, very fun. Highly recommends the retreat format.
Ian:Yeah. We do a thing like that with some of the Laravel people. We've been doing this for a long time now. We had kinda outgrew Micro Conf and, like then we're just, well, let's just do our own thing.
Aaron:Yeah. Exactly.
Ian:We jettison all the formality, so there's there's no presentations. There's no anything just
Aaron:a sweet hang.
Ian:Right? Just have a cabana, and we drink. Yeah. And then people bring up like, we do talk about some business stuff, but it's more informal than that. But I always take something away from it too, business wise.
Ian:So it still works out, but there's less formal, than that. I was interested in these formal ones. I know a few people who do this type of thing, and people seem to really like it and get a lot out of it. But
Aaron:I really like I really like the formal one. I would like, you know, I would like a sweet hang with, you know, 5 or 7 people. But when you have, You know, 18 people there. Yeah. That's nice to hear you.
Aaron:Yeah.
Ian:Yeah. Yeah. We're usually, like, 10, not usually more than 10. So, yeah, when you get over that, it does get A little bit harder. Wait a minute.
Ian:I had some thoughts, but not camera. Alright. So kids are coming. Oh, plan the scale. So you, Taking actual time off, or what how does that work?
Aaron:Yeah.
Ian:What's your paternity leave situation?
Aaron:The paternity leave at PlanetScale is extremely generous. It's 12 weeks. Just fully off. When the 1st set of twins came, I think I had a week or two fully off and then, like, 4 or 5 weeks of part time, old company. And PlanetScale is just exceedingly generous with their paternity leave.
Aaron:And it's really interesting. I didn't I I would never would have thought of this, but it's set up to mirror, exactly mirror the maternity leave.
Ian:Right.
Aaron:And I thought, like, Well, that's nice, but I don't understand why. And I've come to realize it's to not, it's to incentivize or to not disincentivize People to hire women. It's like Right. Oh, if I'm gonna hire a man and he has his wife has a baby, then he gets 2 weeks off, and he's gonna be right back
Ian:to work. Right?
Aaron:Like, oh, so instead of cutting the maternity leave short, you just made the paternity leave matching and generous. And Yeah. I know. So good good for PlanetScale, and good for me. So 12 weeks off, there's a part of me that feels like, Jeez.
Aaron:That's really long, isn't it? Right. And, you know, we've got this whole, like, YouTube video project thing going. And so I'm kinda like, I kinda wanna make sure that this All keeps rolling, and my boss is like, well, you're gonna have 12 weeks off, and you should take it all and not work. And so It's kinda weird.
Aaron:I'm like, hey. What if I did some work? And she's like, what if you didn't work at all? So Well, that
Ian:is kinda weird because you're you're not your situation is very different, right? It's not like, well, you're down in the dungeon slapping some code around, right? And so somebody else will fix those bugs while you're gone and whatever. Who cares? Like things go a little slower, but it's fine.
Ian:But you're kinda like the face of the company on a whole at least 1 platform and really multiple platforms. So, like I know. That's a it's a whole different situation for the face to just disappear for
Aaron:I know. I know. And I don't super love that. Yeah. I feel like, You know, a big part of my my career is, like, investing in this strategy that we're doing, and I kinda wanna Make sure that I see it through.
Aaron:Like, yes, I'm entitled
Ian:to anything? Or
Aaron:I'm trying. You know, we we have been We tried a longer form strategy recently, and so I wasn't able to, like, churn out many short form, short form being, like, 5 to 10 minutes.
Ian:Right.
Aaron:And so I don't have as many in the can as I want. But, yeah, my my goal for this week and next week is to just go, like, Goblin mode and make as many videos as I possibly can. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm in this weird spot where it's like My boss and the CEO and everybody is like, dude, just take the time off. And I'm like, I don't know.
Aaron:I don't I don't think that's a good idea. And so I don't know. We'll we'll see. I just really I don't know. I'm I'm super I'm definitely entitled to it, and everyone is telling everyone that matters, I the reporting structure above me Right.
Aaron:Is saying take it, but I feel like, is that a good is that a good move? And I don't know. Depends on how many I get done, I think, in the can. Like, it depends on how many I can bank.
Ian:Yeah. I mean, especially those 1st, like, month or 6 weeks, you know, they're just gonna be, like, Absolutely brutal. Because, like, the kids change so much. Like, I mean, by week 3 or 4, the kids, like, doubled in size, and, like, it's usually, like, a totally different like, they're kinda half holding their head. Like, you know, when they're just like a blob of mush, like, the day they come out, they're like, you got it so much to do.
Ian:I mean, it's always so so much to do later too, but at least they're more real and Solid, you know, a month in or 2 months in. So, yeah, it's tricky. I never really took much time off. I definitely wish I'd taken more. I mean, I saw it's a little different my situation, but it's just like, obviously people would do cover for me at least With the last 2, the first one, they only had I know employees.
Ian:So that was just that was not fun. That was just like, I just went back to work, like, Yeah. That night, basically answering support at least and stuff. But, the other 2, yeah, there was people who did support and everything, so that was fine, But, still would work. And I do think it is nice to just especially with the 4.
Ian:I mean, the the older 2 are gonna need stuff even with the out pair. Like, they're gonna need they're gonna need you. And then obviously, just all stuff with the baby. So yeah. But at the same time, you know, maybe towards the back end, if you have slapped together a video or something, probably not the end of the world, you'll You'll be getting bored at times too.
Ian:So
Aaron:Yeah. That's how I felt with the first two is at some point, it's like, this is really not that hard. Right.
Ian:You're in the zone. It's all the stuff now.
Aaron:Yeah. A few weeks in a few weeks in or maybe a month or 2 in, it's like, honestly, they sleep a lot, And then they eat, and then you can kinda just plop them.
Ian:Right. That's just nice. This place is nice. You can just plop them. Yeah.
Ian:They're where I left them. Might put them over there, and they're
Aaron:still there. Put them on the little boppy in their little snuggy or whatever it's called, swaddle, and they just stay there and they just look around. It's like, oh, this is really easy. Whereas the 2 the 2 year old is two and a half year old. You can't take your
Ian:eyes off them. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, the the other thing, you do have a lot riding on Are the, this set equally as good as the 1st set in terms of sleeping?
Ian:Like if they end up being bad sleepers, Then not yeah. All bets are off. And who knows what's gonna happen? We may not see you at all for 3 months. You might be totally underground.
Ian:Exactly. So, hopefully, they are good sleepers. We have some genetic proof that the 1st set is a good good pair. So, I mean, you do have all that whole stuff. The the first one's Interfering with the 2nd group here and waking people up and stuff like that.
Ian:There's, you know, more not gonna be a perfectly quiet house like it was the first time. So Some stuff like that going on, but, hopefully, not an issue.
Aaron:Hopefully not. Yeah. Fingers crossed. We'll we'll keep you posted.
Ian:Babies are coming.
Aaron:Babies are coming.
Ian:I don't know. Should we talk about where do you wanna go? Have 2 more topics on here.
Aaron:Yeah. I just added 1. I just added a tweet. Wait. Have you read the tweet?
Aaron:Yeah. I'm sorry. 1?
Ian:Yeah. Let's do it.
Aaron:Alright. Here's the tweet, from Adib Hana or Hannah. PHP slash Laravel is probably the most enjoyable language framework to work with, but it's also the least paying. Ever since I switched to go /node, my salary almost doubled. Mhmm.
Aaron:And we got a couple of, got a couple of me twos in in the replies as well. Yep. So As a as a long time Laravel jobs person, tell me, what what are your thoughts here?
Ian:Yeah. I mean, I think that's probably roughly correct, just generally speaking, I mean, I don't think I think if you but there's, like, the big trade offs there of, Just because you know a language doesn't mean you can get a job in that language. There's presumably less jobs in those languages, in general. I think there's Likely way less jobs for a pure Go developer than a pure Laravel developer. So, you know, so are you able to, like, not just learn the language, but become proficient, show your proficient, and all those type of things.
Ian:Do you want to even do that? So there's a lot of factors there that I think are more complicated than that tweet, which is just like, if I learn go, I will make double the money. I don't think that's true, sort of on the surface there. What do you think about that?
Aaron:That seems right to me. I think, man, I think the top Maybe 3 to 4% of Laravel jobs probably pay equivalent to most of the other jobs or your top 5 to 7% or something. And I feel like if if you're so I what I'm what I mean to say is I don't think you can be a an average or below average PHP be developer and then pick up another language and go get one of these top paying jobs at, You know, Vercel or wherever
Ian:Right.
Aaron:Whoever hires Go people or JavaScript people. But I think it is interesting. I think the Stack Overflow survey recently that that came out a couple months ago maybe, it it was it was pretty clear that JavaScript developers on average get paid more, but the thing I don't understand about that is So I I feel like you and I operate just kind of in a separate world of almost purely Laravel developers and not PHP, not Symfony, not WordPress. Right. And I just don't know how much that survey reflects that reality.
Aaron:And I think the base like, the the sample size is so much larger for PHP.
Ian:Right. The much wider group.
Aaron:Yeah. There is there are just So many more low paying jobs because there are so many more jobs, and it is kind of like a beginner friendly language Historically. So I don't know.
Ian:I agree. And I think also, like, a lot of these, like, JavaScript jobs, there's less of them. They are Heavy in these the verse sells of the world. Hey. We just got $300,000,000.
Ian:We need to blow $300,000,000. So we're gonna, like, pay top dollar for these roles we have, because we're not going to put a lot of like time into, like, we're gonna have the money do some of the work for us. Like it's going to be a very high paying job, very highly qualified. People are gonna apply and we're gonna through that way versus like maybe going a different route with that. So, yeah, I don't know.
Ian:So the way less, like I think front end React developers than PHP developers. Right? Like, what 1 100th as many or 1 50th as many, like a lot less, I would say than PHP developers. So
Aaron:Just because there are so many PHP developers Yeah.
Ian:There's there are also a lot
Aaron:of these front end React only, but the PHP universe is Just so frequent, man.
Ian:Way bigger, way bigger. I feel like, you know, in in Twitter, it could feel like, oh, man, there's React developers everywhere, but the reality is There's way, way more PHP developers out there. I think you're probably right. I also depends on the jobs like, yeah, like you're not gonna use PHP To launch a missile. Right.
Ian:Or to like send a satellite into space. Yeah. I don't think that would be recommended. So, but maybe you would use go for that, or certainly you'd use C plus plus or something like that. So yeah, if you go become a C plus plus guru, you could get a job working at SpaceX firing missiles, which is going to be a much higher paying job than, you know, building a website or a B2B SAS app is probably going to pay you.
Ian:But, you know, again, like, you also gonna have to be the best of the best. You probably have to have, like, a whole additional set of knowledge, I would think, with mathematics and things beyond just, Yes. I know how C plus plus works. You might have to have a little more, other knowledge beyond just the code. So, yeah, there's so many factors.
Ian:I think it's hard to just yeah. I don't like that blanket statement in general that I I definitely think it's a bad career idea to just be like, well, I'll just learn this, and then I'll get paid twice as much. Like, I don't think that's gonna work out for most people.
Aaron:Yeah. And I feel like this guy I feel like, Adib is is kind of a senior developer anyway. And I feel like for a senior developer, that may be more of a viable strategy. Like, if you're a senior developer And you already have all of, like, the kinda like the the other stuff, like, not the programming, but all the other stuff that senior developers know, Like
Ian:Right.
Aaron:You know, trade offs being one of them and, you know, all of the stuff that you have to know to be a senior, and you're like, well, I'm just gonna switch over to a different language. I feel like that's a much more viable, strategy than I've just learned PHP. I'm gonna go just learn no or go, and then I'm gonna get paid a ton.
Ian:It's like And it's also know. This is not even really a new idea, and I don't think it's even that it's it's you can make the same case with .net in any other language or framework. I feel like, especially these wide, the used ones. Cause it's like, you're a C you become a senior developer and then you usually have like a choice, right? Like my, you have like 1 of 3 choices.
Ian:Like I become the manager, which is like what a lot of people do. Like in order for me to move up and get paid more money, I become man, the manager of other devs. Right? Yep. Or else I moved to like, Yeah.
Ian:A more, you know, a rarer language or some in demand language or something like that, where I can take Yes. These baseline skills that apply everywhere and then apply them to this new language and be already kind of ahead of the curve there. Or, like, I go start my own thing because now I know all the stuff coding wise, and maybe I get a founding partner who does marketing stuff and whatever. I go do that route. So, Like yeah.
Ian:I think that this is kind of, like, not that I don't think it's Laravel specific at all, and I don't. And in general, I think it's kind of a standard career path of, like, a senior developer is, like, yeah. You get to a point where you're gonna have to make a choice of If you're looking to progress forward, right? Like a lot of people also hit that and they're like, well, I'm 40 and I got 2 kids and I'm like, cool. Just like, this job pays well and I, I just want to work my 35 hours a week.
Ian:You know, I'm not trying to like also learn a side thing and get a new job at a startup or whatever. Like, I don't want to do that whole thing. So Yeah. I'm fine with this, which is a 4th choice, of course, as well. But, yeah.
Ian:So I I don't know. I think it's fine, but not really So that would be my
Aaron:Yeah. Interesting in interesting anecdata, at least from this 1 person, to switch over like that. And I think, man, I don't know. It's just so hard to make opinions or have opinions about the PHP industry as a whole because I'm just I just I'm not a part of it. Yeah.
Aaron:And I also frankly, I haven't I haven't done, like, the pure developer job hunt in a long, long time. Right. Like, I was at Resolute for 5 years, and then I left to go to Tuple for a second, and then was Now I'm at PlanetScale, and none of, like, none of those have been, I'm looking for a job in Laravel.
Ian:Right.
Aaron:And so I just I just don't even have enough Opinion, really to say.
Ian:Yeah. You well, you're kind of on a you've made a different choice when you reach a certain level. It's like, this is more like developer relations or however I don't know what you would even classify. You're
Aaron:Developer educator. Developer developer relations folks have a lot of opinions about what makes a DevRel a DevRel, and I Okay. Don't have any opinions. I just people in my SQL. So Developer educator.
Ian:Alright. There you go. Developer educator. So, yeah. I guess that's my take.
Ian:This is a
Aaron:good take. Alright. You got you got you got a few minutes. I got 1 final wrap up story if you wanna end here.
Ian:Yeah. Give us a story.
Aaron:I'm at this I'm at this, you know, this little bootstrappers retreat. Right? And we're in between sessions, and we're hanging out, and I've got my I've got my Vuari joggers on. So I've got these you know, I've got joggers on. I've got a pair of Nikes on.
Aaron:Yep. And I have I have my legs crossed. I'm sitting there. I'm talking to a friend. You know, you you know Andrew Culver.
Aaron:I'm talking to Andrew.
Ian:Oh, yeah. Mhmm.
Aaron:Yeah. So we're just hanging out on the couch talking, and out of nowhere, he says, okay. So do you wear socks with these shoes? Because I'm always trying to figure out if I should wear socks
Ian:or just go no socks.
Aaron:And I kid you
Ian:not the right man.
Aaron:I I kid you not. A guy sitting on my right so Andrew's on my left. A guy, sitting on my right, who's also a friend, Started laughing, and he said, are you serious? Are you doing
Ian:a bit?
Aaron:And I looked over at at that guy, and I was like, he I don't think he listens to the podcast. And he goes, They talk about socks. It's basically a sock podcast. And Andrew was like, no. I haven't listened.
Aaron:Tell me. What's the story? So
Ian:Oh, I gotcha.
Aaron:Out and about in the world, people are Still inquiring about my socks, and thankfully, we had a faithful friend and listener who could back me up there. But I I showed Andrew the way. I told him I told him the truth of the philosophy, and he's he's into it. He loves it.
Ian:He's on board? And I assume you actually had socks on. I did. The only socks I
Aaron:own in the protocol. Them. Yes.
Ian:Yep. Then now okay. I had another question about this because so I'm wearing your socks. Right?
Aaron:And Love it.
Ian:I normally wear Stan Smiths, which I don't know if you'll further those. Yeah. I would say they don't they still show just Slightly with the Stan Smiths. So now do you
Aaron:Smith is a low rise.
Ian:It's a low rise. And do you base your shoe selection On the sock philosophy. So, like, are you when you go to pick out shoes being, like, nope. These are too low rise. I can't buy these Even if I like them otherwise.
Aaron:I have I have switched off of mostly all low rise shoes for other reasons. Okay. But so most historically, for, like, the past 10 or 15 years, all shoes I have are the Nike size. Like, they go up that high. So it's like New Balance, Nike.
Aaron:Something that goes up a little higher. And no more Yep. Yeah. No more CVs or vans or anything that's low rise. Okay.
Aaron:So it You're all I don't know I don't know which dog is wagging the tail or the tail is wagging the dog, but, yeah, they they work together well.
Ian:Okay. Yeah. Because I noticed that in, some shot you had of your socks, and I was like, oh, well, his shoes. Maybe it was when you were in here. I guess, showing them the Caleb.
Ian:When else would I Yeah. From your feet? Like, oh, that's a little higher that's a little higher shoe there. So the
Aaron:Yeah. It's a little taller shoe. Fits fits my, my body shape a little more. Because if I sometimes if I wear if I wear the really low rise shoes. They look a little a little like ballet slippers because Oh.
Aaron:You know, tall guy, big legs, little bitty shoes, and it's like, Yeah. I tried the whole CVs thing for a long time, and I liked them, but decided, no, it's not gonna work for me anymore.
Ian:I love when the podcast makes its way out into the real world. Like, I
Aaron:know. It was crazy. There.
Ian:Yeah. That's the It
Aaron:was crazy. He asked me that question, and my eyes just got really wide. And fortunately And
Ian:then there's an answer right there.
Aaron:Yeah. Fortunately, I had a friend I had a listener there, and I was like, okay. Somebody caught that. And he said, you gotta tell Ian about this on The show. And so yes.
Aaron:So there we go. We'll wrap on that. You wanna tell them where they can find us?
Ian:Yes. Everybody can find us at mostlytechnical.com, mostly tech pod on Twitter because I will not say x And mostly technical podcast at gmail.com, so hit us up there. Also in the, YouTube comments and just on our personal Twitters and all that stuff as well. So if you have anything you like to share, let us know, and we will see you probably next week unless, there's an emergency podcast in the middle, in which case it'd be sooner or Aaron has some babies in the mix here and we have to delay at some point a little bit. But otherwise we'll see you in a week.
Aaron:All right. See you.
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