105: Laravel New, Again
You're listening to Mostly Technical, which is brought to you by LairJobs, the official Lairvale job board, and screencasting.com, where you can learn how to create high quality screencasts faster than ever. Now, Ian and Aaron.
Ian Landsman:We're back.
Aaron Francis:Welcome back, sir.
Ian Landsman:And the people, they were not happy. We took a week off.
Aaron Francis:You endured a lot of abuse, didn't you?
Ian Landsman:They were very unhappy. So everybody, we're back. Sometimes we gotta keep people on their toes. You know, you can't just assume we're gonna be there. Like, you gotta appreciate us every week we are there.
Aaron Francis:Yeah. That that's one thing we don't want you to think about us is that we're reliable, for sure. Yeah. That's that's the narrative we want to drive home.
Ian Landsman:Absence makes the heart grow fonder. Okay. That's the thing.
Aaron Francis:Listen, I'm I'm glad for this for two reasons. One, people really like the show. Yeah. And when we miss it, they notice. And two They do.
Aaron Francis:It wasn't my fault. So you got all the heat.
Ian Landsman:That's true.
Aaron Francis:I'm thrilled. This is great for me. This is two for two.
Ian Landsman:You never miss. I'm always the one missing. I'm
Aaron Francis:the misser. I only miss when I get when I get all tied up, you know, if you know what I'm saying. That's the only time I miss. And then other than that, I'm here.
Ian Landsman:It's only if you're in surgery that you miss. I
Aaron Francis:took a call from the car one time when Caleb was launching
Ian Landsman:because the tower was
Aaron Francis:out in the studio. I had the worst connection. I was calling in on a series of pipe cleaners. It was so bad, but I was there. I was there.
Ian Landsman:You were there. Well, I'm too old for that stuff. Sometimes, you know, I just can't make it happen. Sometimes the old guy has to, like, take it, take a day off. God, give me a give me a break.
Ian Landsman:Put me on the bench for for a game. Sorry. I'm back now then.
Aaron Francis:Alright. But We need we need to talk about why you were on the bench, why you were out of town, why you let the people down. You did a big trip. You had a lot of fun, it sounds like.
Ian Landsman:It was great. Had a big trip. Went to WireLive, the inaugural WireLive, which is LiveWire conference thrown by Caleb and the Thunk Boys, and it was great. It was in Buffalo, New York, which I I never thought I'd even go to Buffalo, New York.
Aaron Francis:I was you?
Ian Landsman:Oh, I would you. Right? I'm gonna turn up Buffalo. It's a very nice place. It was better than expected.
Ian Landsman:Your expectations are so low, you know, that, like, when it's actually you know, it it's easy to see them, and it did. It was and not even just, like, a little bit. I was great. We did some fun stuff and go through it all. But, yeah, Buffalo was great.
Ian Landsman:I took the train like a proper 18 gentleman Mhmm. Up to the to the Great North. That was great. Highly recommend it.
Aaron Francis:Only took you twenty to forty hours depending on
Ian Landsman:the in traffic. Yeah. Well, it actually ended up being no big deal. It was six and a half hours.
Aaron Francis:K.
Ian Landsman:And because they have a pretty direct train. There are other trains, but they have, like, layovers in places, and that would have been, like, nine hours.
Aaron Francis:Is high speed? So is it, like, 35, 40 miles hour?
Ian Landsman:Right. Well, it's, like, 35, 40 miles
Aaron Francis:an hour.
Ian Landsman:That's so
Aaron Francis:fast. That's crazy. But here's the rules.
Ian Landsman:So my choices are drive, which is fine, but it's also, like, about six hours or so. It's it's not much faster.
Aaron Francis:Beyond my limit. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. It's, like, not like the nice, oh, it's three and a half hours. Fine. I'm automatically driving. So it's, like, six hours, like, the electric car.
Ian Landsman:I'm gonna have to stop to charge, blah blah blah. Okay. So get that. So I could do that. That would be my a plan generally.
Ian Landsman:The b plan was like, okay, an airplane, of course. But for me, it means I either gotta do a layover somewhere from a local airport, which is not happening, or I gotta drive to New York City. I gotta deal with traffic. I gotta park for a $100 a day. I gotta it takes two hours to drive down there.
Ian Landsman:So that's two hours down there. It's you gotta be there two hours early, whatever, flights, blah blah.
Aaron Francis:And and if you go through New York City, you're either gonna get stabbed or pooped on.
Ian Landsman:So Obviously, that's that's what they claim, but it's not true. I well, just on a little side note, just yesterday, I went for a beautiful hike, a hike through the woods next to a river
Aaron Francis:See, that's a
Ian Landsman:New York City. In New
Aaron Francis:York City. Was in
Ian Landsman:New York City.
Aaron Francis:What? I was thinking about reality experience?
Ian Landsman:The Bronx. Like, what would ostensibly be the scariest part
Aaron Francis:of the city.
Ian Landsman:I was in The Bronx, and I had a beautiful hike on a 140 acre park along the Hudson River. It was fantastic.
Aaron Francis:So Oh, that sounds nice.
Ian Landsman:There's a little New York City for you. But yeah. So all that like, go to New York City, take a plane, actually, it was longer than six hours and more expensive and more hassle, so I didn't really wanna do that. So the train the train picked me up in my city. Like, boom.
Ian Landsman:Picked me up right in Poughkeepsie.
Aaron Francis:It came by. It it came by. It picked you up. It was like, I must not know as much about trains as I thought I did because I didn't think they could, like, swing by. I thought it
Ian Landsman:was kind
Aaron Francis:of fixed thing.
Ian Landsman:That's awesome. You're from Texas. You don't
Aaron Francis:even know
Ian Landsman:about trains.
Aaron Francis:You don't even have trains in Texas. I'm thinking of old school trains that, like, stay on the tracks and go, you know, direct places. But nice. Love to swing by, pick you up. That's great.
Ian Landsman:They swung right by, so that was very convenient. And then, yeah, got a business class ticket, a
Aaron Francis:little And Wi Fi on the train?
Ian Landsman:They do have Wi Fi. It was okay. Not amazing, but it was fine. There was actually Internet in general though for most of the ride, which I kinda surprised about because you wouldn't expect this. But most of New York State is extremely rural, and this train goes through the much of this extremely ruralness of New York State.
Aaron Francis:What's the name of your town? Where do you live?
Ian Landsman:Poughkeepsie. P O Poughkeepsie. Okay.
Aaron Francis:Okay. Poe Poughkeepsie. Kipsey.
Ian Landsman:So it's right on the Hudson River. So the train goes up the Hudson River Okay. Stopping at various points Uh-huh. Hits Albany, makes a left at Albany, and then just goes out that way to Buffalo.
Aaron Francis:Okay. And then Buffalo. This is good radio. I'm putting it into maps. Google.
Aaron Francis:Oh, wow. That is far away.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. New York state's big.
Aaron Francis:New York state is really big. Okay. Alright. Cool.
Ian Landsman:So yeah. So the train was good. You know, the little food car, which no Mhmm. Was not amazing, but actually was, you know, not as bad as you might expect. I had I read online that the mac and cheese was solid, so I got the mac and cheese on the way back.
Ian Landsman:Actually, it was good.
Aaron Francis:Nothing like mac and cheese from a train.
Ian Landsman:Had some snacks and whatever. It was fine. Free free nonalcoholic beverages since I was in business class, so that was Yeah. Nice and low Crushed some sodas. Love that.
Ian Landsman:Had a little decaf coffee. I've been I've been dipping my toe back in the coffee game a little bit just to decaf stuff. Mhmm. Yeah. So hitting are you are you a coffee man?
Aaron Francis:Oh, yeah. Big time.
Ian Landsman:Okay. Alright.
Aaron Francis:Mhmm. So Not like a not like a coffee snob. I just drink a lot of it. I'm not very sophisticated. I just like it.
Ian Landsman:So I haven't had coffee in twelve years. I know. Coffee. None. I know.
Ian Landsman:But this last couple weeks, it was very nice being at a conference, having a coffee. What's better than that? Nothing. Yeah. So I had to decaf.
Ian Landsman:Can't can't go to the hard stuff. Never going back to hard stuff, but it was nice to have a decaf. Yeah. So that was the trip up there. So so far so good.
Ian Landsman:It was got the buffalo, hung out with a bunch of get there, see, like, the vehicle guys, hang out with them. And
Aaron Francis:So did you get there on day zero, I I assume?
Ian Landsman:Yes. So I got there on day zero. Caleb talked about this in his podcast a little bit, but he wanted to do kind of a mostly technical party.
Aaron Francis:I heard. We got the name we got the name dropped. I love that for us.
Ian Landsman:So he did the little last minute party thing, which was great. Actually, only made it to, like, the last, like, half an hour of that, but made it to that. Whatever. Had fun. Chat it.
Ian Landsman:Blah blah. Yeah. And then next day was the conference. The hotel was really nice. Doug the hotel.
Ian Landsman:Cool. Yeah. It was good. And the venue was in the hotel, but it wasn't like a conf like a normal generic hotel venue. It was like Yeah.
Ian Landsman:It looked beautiful. Theater. Yeah. It was really cool. Apparently, it used to be some kind of gentleman's club, not the modern interpretation of that word, but more of the old school
Aaron Francis:When the gentlemen were actually gentlemen? Right. Yeah. They would come together and talk about literature and smoke cigars and stuff?
Ian Landsman:Exactly. Drink the scotch, whatever. So, yeah, so it's a really nice theater.
Aaron Francis:Alright. Give us a sense of for those that aren't plugged into the LiveWire world, approximate number of attendees, shapes of the programming, that sort of stuff.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. So it was I think he said a 125 people. Okay. I think it was, like, a good amount. It was like, it was small enough that, you know, I think everybody wanted to talk to Caleb.
Ian Landsman:Got to talk to Caleb, which was cool and Mhmm. Wasn't like the place was overwhelmed, but it also wasn't empty. It was, like, just right. I think that worked out good.
Aaron Francis:For a first year in Buffalo, that's incredible.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. I think they were thought it would be much less and a lot of people flew. Like, a lot of people. I was surprised how many people flew from Europe, from Eastern Europe. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:So it was crazy. And just a big big picture, I think the format of the conference was really nice. It was, like, one day of talks.
Aaron Francis:Mhmm.
Ian Landsman:And the second day was just kind of a hang, a a sweet hang, you might say.
Aaron Francis:Love a sweet hang.
Ian Landsman:And it was just people could if you wanted to, like, they did like a hackathon and we're back in the main room and you could hack on something. But a lot of people were just like working or chatting or whatever. Was in the working
Aaron Francis:Chatting room. Same venue. Day two was in the same venue. Ah. I like that.
Aaron Francis:That's comfortable.
Ian Landsman:Yep. And it and it has the venue is set up with just big round tables. So even the first day and the second day, you had plenty of space, not like where you just filed into, like, you know, normal seating. So that was pretty nice. But, yeah, it was like, you're just back in the same venue day two.
Ian Landsman:Everybody was just hanging out, chatting, roaming around. By the end of it, think there was still like 30 something people there out of the one twenties, which is pretty good because usually you lose half the people day two, just like kind of anyway. Yeah. It was great. And some people hung out in the morning and then, you know, caught a plane or train or whatever they're doing or drove in the afternoon and left.
Ian Landsman:I like the vibe. Think it was like perfect for like what LiveWire is. Like, it doesn't like, to do like three days of LiveWire is obviously too much or even two full days of talks, I think, would be too much.
Aaron Francis:Especially this close after Alericon, which is, you know, not a LiveWire conference, but is adjacent.
Ian Landsman:Right. And it has some LiveWire topics or whatever. So, yeah, I thought it like, the perfect amount. The talks were good. Caleb's talk was awesome.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. It was great.
Aaron Francis:Great.
Ian Landsman:They did a great job. Yep. Did a great job.
Aaron Francis:Good job, Caleb and the thunk boys.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. They pulled it off. Like, I would say there was no big hiccups, like, as far as, like That's amazing. When I've run a in person conference before, was felt more stressful, so they were they were on top of things, and food was super good and all those little kinda details. There was no drama that I'm aware of.
Ian Landsman:And then yeah. We got a what else do we do? You know, I think they're doing the videos. Some people will all watch the videos, so won't go into, like, the crazy detail, all the talks. But Livewire four is awesome.
Ian Landsman:Livewire four, like, settles all family business as far as I'm concerned,
Aaron Francis:like So you seemed you know, I got a note in a chat about Livewire four being amazing. And you're Right. You're just thrilled to death and everything is, in your words, So like It's
Ian Landsman:all fixed.
Aaron Francis:What what is what did he do on stage for Livewire four that just blew your mind so much?
Ian Landsman:I mean, there's just it's like a lot of little things. So, like, probably the big pick the biggest one was, like, what he talked about at oh, one of the big not even the biggest to me, but important was the speed issues, things like that when you have a lot of blade templates, which just isn't really a LiveWire issue per se. It's more of just a if you build something with blade issue. So now he has this Blaze package, which doesn't do everything. It's not total solution, but it does make a lot of stuff much, much faster.
Ian Landsman:And once you have access to it and you know about it, you can optimize your own stuff to take advantage of it. So and Flux is optimized for it. So most LiveWire apps are gonna be much faster, which is a key thing because you're waiting for something to render on the server in LiveWire and then get sent back down the pipe to the front end.
Aaron Francis:Mhmm.
Ian Landsman:So if that is slow, obviously, that's, you know, gonna be a poor user experience for something which ostensibly is to be reactive effectively and to be fast. And you could there was tons of little workarounds and hacks and whatever. All kinds of stuff you could do to make it faster. But this sort of lets you build it the way you would expect to be able to build the app and then still have it be fast without going through too much extra shenanigans. So I think that's good for like
Aaron Francis:incantations like there used to
Ian Landsman:be. Right. Not as much of that. And for like a bigger app or real app, you know, again, it's all these things where like, oh, I can build a fake little app and make everything super fast, and that's fine. But like when you actually build a real app and you have 50,000,000 rows you're trying to show and a dense amount of data and all this stuff, then you hit these things more.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. So I think the speed is huge. I think there's like a lot of like new tools to make things faster in other ways. Like there's this concept of islands that he talked about at LaraCon where like, you got part of the page that's kind of its own little world, which you can then be refreshing or not refreshing or whatever, depending on what you're trying to do. So but may you know, make it so it doesn't rerender when other things do rerender so you don't have interruptions or slowness or whatever.
Ian Landsman:So A lot of stuff there. I haven't even dug too much into the island stuff.
Aaron Francis:So let me pause you. Let's go back to Blaze for a second. Yeah. So Laravel has a templating engine called Blade. LiveWire's a Laravel package.
Aaron Francis:There's now a new thing in the LiveWire world called Blaze with a z. Which is like Blade, but has that sense of being faster because it's got a z in it. You know? Blaze. I love that.
Aaron Francis:Yeah. I like that. So is is Blaze like a composer package that you install that, like, automatically, like, statically compiles Blade? Is it internal to LiveWire and you never have to think about it? Like, where's the responsibility live for the end user or I guess the developer?
Ian Landsman:Yeah. So you have to install it separately. It's its own package. It has nothing at all to do with LiveWire. So it's not connected to LiveWire at all.
Ian Landsman:It's basically strictly a blade enhancement package, and it's enhancing the rendering engine of Blade. K. And you have to opt into it further. So you don't installing it does nothing. So you install it, and then you have to put at Blaze at the top of your Blade components.
Ian Landsman:And that will then use the Blaze compiler instead of the normal Blade compiler.
Aaron Francis:K.
Ian Landsman:And that will do magical things primarily through, like, code folding and other things I don't fully understand to figure out what it can optimize, what it doesn't need to work dynamically, basically. K. So the this part is a little bit confusing. I haven't totally wrapped my head around it, but basically, if you're passing, like, dynamic data in, it doesn't really do anything for you. It has some other little optimizations that make it slightly faster, but it's not gonna be radically faster.
Ian Landsman:But places where you get more static type of blade components, and those are much, much faster.
Aaron Francis:Got it.
Ian Landsman:It's not fully static, but it's like you can pass things into slots and stuff. So if you're building, like, a table and you have, like, the cell as a component and the row as a component and, like, whatever, the whole
Aaron Francis:thing is a component. Right? Right.
Ian Landsman:All that stuff. A lot of that should be much faster or you can at least construct it to be faster. So that type of stuff is what it's really designed for. There's other elements where, like, it can't improve it because it needs access to, like, I know one the examples he's given is, like, it needs access to the error bag. And if you need so if you have something that needs access to the error bag, like, that has to be dynamic.
Ian Landsman:Or if have if you have access to the request, like, it's can't precompile it because the request is different every time. Or if you're accessing like auth user stuff that can't be precompiled because it needs access to that. So again, I think long term, there can be like tricks to some of this stuff potentially when you need ultra optimization of like, well, can I do something in one component and then pass the output of that to a different component, which is able to be compiled, and some of that can maybe be helpful if it's being looped over and whatever, blah blah blah? But everything is much faster. Like, in practical terms, you know, it pretty much instantly make things in, like, outro, like, two times faster, three times faster.
Aaron Francis:Sounds like you have to laravel new it then. If there's this new paradigm, you gotta start Outro.fm all over again from from scratch.... Don't smile at me like that! Do not oh, no.
Ian Landsman:Laravel new lives! It lives!!!
Aaron Francis:Dude, no. You're kidding. You're kidding.
Aaron Francis:You're doing you're doing it over again?
Ian Landsman:Dude.
Aaron Francis:Ian. Oh, no. I thought what is the most absurd callback I can make to give the people a little laugh on their drive to work and you just stone cold stared into the camera? You're kidding me.
Ian Landsman:Laravel new forever. Never ship. Laravel new forever.
Aaron Francis:I gotta get you stickers
Ian Landsman:next year at LaraCon. Never ship.
Aaron Francis:Get you stickers made that say we mustn't ship. That is that is the new Ian sticker. We mustn't ship. You
Ian Landsman:We must keep building.
Aaron Francis:Are insane. Is the worst this is the worst news I have potentially heard all morning, and I've been up for a few now.
Ian Landsman:Laravel new!
Aaron Francis:Okay. So good. Don't know where to go from here.
Ian Landsman:Do we take a little detour on Laravel new or do we wanna hold on that?
Aaron Francis:This is what happens when you make little jokes. You know, you can't make little jokes because then the show gets derailed. Okay. Let's see. Let's keep going.
Aaron Francis:Let's let's keep the people let's let's bait them. Let's keep going on Livewire while I recompose self.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. You have questions.
Aaron Francis:And we'll get we'll get around to Laravel new, which is a disaster. Okay. Laravel new. So Blaze.
Ian Landsman:So that's pretty much the Blaze story. It makes your shift faster. Use it. If you use Flux, which you should absolutely be using, Flux is already pre Blazeified, so it's just gonna, like, magically make stuff faster that you're using flux for. So yeah.
Ian Landsman:So, you know, I think there's still a lot of work there. That's why he didn't wanna, like, just make it automatically try to enhance all your blade files because, like, this is obviously there's a lot of stuff going on internally. Things could go south. So you have to kinda opt into it. At least you'll be able to, like, turn it on and off very easily and see what breaks and all that kind of stuff.
Ian Landsman:So I think that was all smart and is is good. But
Aaron Francis:I wanna make I wanna make a a prediction and a prophecy Yes. Just as an aside. I think Laravel needs to hire John Coster, the the king of blade. And I think John's project Forte and Caleb's project Blaze need to be combined and turned into just blade. Blade just needs to do this.
Aaron Francis:Blade just needs to be better. We should take all three of those projects, Blade original, Forte, which is John's, and Blaze, which is Caleb's. Because I have to imagine Caleb doesn't wanna maintain this. Like, this doesn't this doesn't make him money. It just provides for, you know, Flex and LiveWire to be more performant.
Aaron Francis:So
Ian Landsman:Right.
Aaron Francis:I don't feel bad saying that. All three of those should be rolled into one. John should be the blade czar inside of Laravel Incorporated, Laravel Holdings LLC. I'm sorry. And blade should just get better.
Aaron Francis:That is that is my that is my my prophecy. I'm speaking that into the universe.
Ian Landsman:I like it. I don't know. I don't know if John is happily employed or not, but
Aaron Francis:who Who can say? It doesn't matter. Knows?
Ian Landsman:Who cares?
Aaron Francis:It's not the point of process. Gotta do what you
Ian Landsman:gotta do. Exactly. I totally agree. It should just be part of Blade. I think this is like I think this is kind of interesting how I mean, even Taylor's announced that he's working on like an first party AI package.
Ian Landsman:Right? And I think that this sort of evolution I think he even also said that, like, he's kind of working I don't know I don't know how much he's working with Prism, like, directly or indirectly, but, like, this world of, like, things maybe get kick started in the community, and then things that have sufficient traction or are, you know, sufficiently important, it turns out, can start to get, you know, backed by the mothership. And Mhmm. I totally think this is like a
Aaron Francis:This one's pretty fundamental.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. I think this would be great because it's definitely something you hit a lot in Blade. It's just like all the documentation, everything's pushing you to make components, which I I guess is definitely the best way to make it maintainable and all that stuff. But then you do that, and then you're like, well, I got this table, 20,000 Blade components. Now my page takes five seconds to load, and that's not a good experience.
Ian Landsman:So yeah. So it should just be ultra fast out of the box. And this is all and there's no LiveWire stuff in this. So I think seems like all these things should be possible. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:I I at one point, I thought you mean me that was working with the John guy, but then it seems like he does have his own package. So, yeah, I don't know if they what the what deal is there, but
Aaron Francis:I'm not sure that those two packages are aiming to solve the same thing. I don't know that for sure. I know John's is heavily focused on parsing Blade into an abstract syntax tree Mhmm. Which it is it is not. It is just like a bunch of string replacements.
Aaron Francis:Yeah. Yeah. And so I think John's primary focus is let's turn this into something that is walkable
Ian Landsman:Right.
Aaron Francis:Which I have to imagine enables much of the stuff that, you know, Caleb is doing in Blaze. So I think they are compatible. I don't think they're solving the same end.
Ian Landsman:Right. I don't think making it a real language of
Aaron Francis:sorts. Exactly.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. And then yeah. Which presumably then could use to then build Blaze maybe Blaze is already using this thing. Maybe it's not. I don't know.
Ian Landsman:But, yes, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. I don't remember where I was. But, yes, that all that's I like that. That's a good prediction.
Ian Landsman:I hope that happens. I think that would be a big that would be a cool, like, next year at LaraCon kind of Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Now Blade is 20 times faster.
Ian Landsman:Blah. I think that'd be cool. So tons of other stuff. I mean, there's like a huge thing I found this weekend after I Laravel nude is is I always in general had this. I first one of the big changes that now you can have single file components, which you could do with Volt before.
Ian Landsman:So this is I think this this goes further than Volt now. Don't know if Volt really needs to exist anymore. I assume not. But Mhmm. They'll still be maintained in case you need the compatibility stuff.
Ian Landsman:But I think the single file components now native to to LiveWire will do it. So I was not necessarily into this. I was like, I don't I don't like when everything's all mixed in there or whatever. It's not my favorite. And you can still do multi file, and there's, like, a there's like the traditional class based, which how it's always worked.
Ian Landsman:There's like a new multi file, which is like a folder with a blade and a JavaScript and a test and whatever Cool. Different files, whatever. But I wasn't gonna use a single file. But there's a new thing, which is so cool, which is now you can make these namespaces, component namespaces, which is something I always hit. It's like, where do I put like, my apps are big, complicated apps.
Ian Landsman:So, like, there's the in outro. There's the app, what I call the app, which is like where you will go in and plan your podcast. Right?
Aaron Francis:K.
Ian Landsman:But then there's like a public facing component of some stuff you can do that's just public. Then there's like an admin panel. Then there's there's even something else already inherent to it. But anyway, there's like already four or five different sort of zones and they might have different permissions and different In
Aaron Francis:theory, because nothing has ever been built to fruition. But just in theory. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Aaron Francis:Keep going.
Ian Landsman:So so you put those things in folders and then, you know, to call your components becomes this long tree of dot syntax things, and it all feels a little bit fuzzy, and you have things in multiple places because you have a LiveWire folder, and you have the resources folder with stuff in it and whatever. So now you got the namespaces. So the namespaces let you do this nice little syntax. It's like app colon colon episodes, let's say. And now that's just the path to your component of that page or whatever.
Ian Landsman:It has several different uses. So now it's like okay. And now in the resources views directory is where all the LiveWire components live. You don't need the other directory anymore. Like in the app folder is the traditional LiveWire place where it's So that's brought me around to the single file components because now it's also clean.
Ian Landsman:Now it's like, oh, there's just this one folder with all my LiveWire stuff. It's in different folders for different sort of areas of the app, but they're all namespace so I can reference them nice and easy. You also use these references, for example, in your routing. So when you route, you do like route LiveWire. And then, you know, if you're doing the homepage, do a slash, and then you do app colon colon home as like your route.
Ian Landsman:So you don't even have like an import anymore, which I also like the routes file in a real app gets like gigantic because of a thousand imports, whatever. So now you don't have any of that stuff. Just this like little syntax right to your full page component Mhmm. Which is now a single file and that's all great. And then you can still have a components directory for actual components, which are not full page components like just a widget that displays the weather or whatever.
Ian Landsman:There's a counter, blah blah. All those little pieces.
Aaron Francis:I can't believe Alger is doing weather now, but that makes sense.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. It's like the weather.
Aaron Francis:Yeah.
Ian Landsman:So this whole thing is just like a little thing that he threw in there. They thought it'd be nice, and I think it's actually super cool for organizing a bigger, real Laravel slash LiveWire app. Yep. Like, this is like a cool little addition. That is also something that maybe makes sense in Laravel itself in some ways.
Ian Landsman:But so you have that. That was a big thing. Caleb, like, you know, I had the greatest one on one call. What what do talk what do we even call these things? What do
Aaron Francis:call these Pair programming.
Ian Landsman:Pair programming. I thought he was no other call because I've never done it except for one time with Caleb. And Caleb and me did that for an hour or two, and he went off, and he took a bunch of my ideas from outro and made that his talk and basically built all the stuff I would need to build. Great.
Aaron Francis:So you got scooped. So so outro is built, but not by you. Perfect.
Ian Landsman:But it's in a great way though, because I got to build all this stuff, and instead I have to build any of it. So now it's like, oh, can't have more trouble
Aaron Francis:trying Yeah. Get a I know that.
Ian Landsman:So he built all kinds of cool sorting stuff. There's a lot of magical sorting things that LiveWire can do. There's Kanban board components coming to Flux if you you know, they're very simple, just like the basic shell, which is fine. But it's cool that they're in there. Think that's a good thing for Flux to have in it.
Ian Landsman:But the LiveWire parts are really cool because it's like managing all that, like, cross column dragging and Totally. Like, column dragging and all those things that you'd have to figure out all that stuff and use an external library and blah blah blah. Like, now it's all magical. It's in LiveWire. It works.
Ian Landsman:And obviously, there's a lot of other uses for that besides Kanban boards. Now you could do all kinds of sophisticated dragging and dropping, which to me is like a big if you're gonna compete with React and these things, like, these are the areas you can really dig into is some of this front end y stuff that needs to feel instant. You know? And so I feel like that's a big step forward in that regard. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:So there was a some other things that came out of that, but yeah. I don't know. I don't wanna keep talking about code, but, like, it was cool. A lot of good stuff. A lot of bug fixes.
Ian Landsman:A lot of, like, if you've ever used LiveWire, one big thing I'll mention is, like, when you're in loops, you have to put a a wire key on the elements in a loop. Otherwise, like, you can't merge the diffs and gets kinda you know, with weird bugs, you don't understand what the hell is going on Right. And it's not clear. And so now they've fixed that in LiveWire four where it's detecting loops and putting keys on it for you. There should be just less of those, like, people getting started, not understanding they need the wire key or I even hit it fairly often too where I just, like, I'm coding through and I forget about putting a wire key and then it makes weird stuff happen.
Ian Landsman:So yeah. So that was with that with a lot of good code stuff for the people. So check out Livewire.
Aaron Francis:Lot of good code. Let's do one quick break and then wrap wire live. And then after that, I can berate you about Laravel new. No. It is November.
Aaron Francis:Welcome to November. We have a new sponsor. We love new sponsors. Ittybit.com, ittybit.com. Itty bit.
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Aaron Francis:We know that I've been I've been futzing around with media the whole time. And you know what's great? Whoever wrote this at itty bit is a listener and a fan of the show because it says, if you if you're not Aaron and you don't wanna worry about the right magical FFmpeg incantation for HLS segments, Itty Bit handles all the annoying parts for you. We love a sponsor who listens to the show.
Ian Landsman:It's the best.
Aaron Francis:Check out ittybit.com. Ittybit.com. Thank you to them for sponsoring the show for the first time.
Ian Landsman:Yes. Thank you. And I think looks like a really awesome service and definitely the way I would go about it if I needed such a thing.
Aaron Francis:And if I were a normal person, that's probably what I would do. If I valued my time whatsoever, I would probably do that.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. No. You didn't know about Anybit before. Now you
Aaron Francis:know. No.
Ian Landsman:Truly do. Future, you will you will possibly take that on. So, this is cool. To Innybit for coming on board.
Aaron Francis:Appreciate it. Website too.
Ian Landsman:Check them out. Yeah. Really cool website. So check that out. Alright.
Ian Landsman:Got a couple other little wire live things I have to touch on because just fine. So the last night of the conference, yeah, there was a party, whatever. The first night of conference, that's all good. Next night, we went out to dinner with a bunch of people. Watham was there.
Aaron Francis:Fun.
Ian Landsman:Renick was there. You know, Caleb, whatever. Dinner was fun. Good time. Okay.
Ian Landsman:So Thursday was poker day. They specifically set aside for poker. So me and Daniel Colbourne are gonna go to Canada, which is the closest poker, and play poker. So we go. We're on our way.
Ian Landsman:We're in an Uber. Mhmm. First of all, the Uber won't go to Canada.
Aaron Francis:No. I should think not. That's an international border. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:So so one option was go to the Rainbow Bridge, which connects our beautiful countries and walk over. So that was kind of our plan. But, you know, it's a little bit of a hike, whatever. We're not actually sure how far the casino was past the bridge, whatever.
Aaron Francis:That's the sketchiest thing I've ever heard. So okay.
Ian Landsman:What's option two? Option two is bribe the Uber driver.
Aaron Francis:Sure. I I take back the sketchiest part. This is now the sketchiest thing I've ever heard. Okay. Keep going.
Ian Landsman:So that's what that's what I did. We we bribe the Uber driver. Right? So he's like, oh, $50, and I'll just take you across. And I was like, okay.
Ian Landsman:Great. $50 sold. So Uber driver's gonna take us across. We go across. Well, we're on our way to go across.
Ian Landsman:And he's like, okay. Do you have your passports? And I didn't have a passport, but I knew I had my enhanced ID. And I know my enhanced ID gets you into Canada. Colborne doesn't have his enhanced ID.
Ian Landsman:He thought he has an enhanced ID, but he has a real ID. And a real ID is not an enhanced ID. So we're going towards
Aaron Francis:border work. Shocked. I'm shocked to find out that that Daniel's headed to Canada
Ian Landsman:Yeah.
Aaron Francis:With no proper documentation. This is surprising Yeah. To
Ian Landsman:You're shocked.
Aaron Francis:Of all people.
Ian Landsman:We're flying towards the border. We don't know what's gonna happen. He's like, I'll just get out if it's a problem. But, like, as we get closer, we see it's not so easy to, like, just there's nowhere to walk. It's not designed for you to get out
Aaron Francis:and
Ian Landsman:then His walk
Aaron Francis:whole story. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:So I was pretty nervous. It's we're supposed to, like, fill out some paperwork that we have, money with us, which I don't wanna do, so we don't mention the money. The guy at the booth is looking at a document. He's like, this is not the right document. We're like, yeah.
Ian Landsman:We know. We're sorry. And then he lets us through. He lets
Aaron Francis:through. Gosh.
Ian Landsman:He let us through.
Aaron Francis:Why does the universe keep rewarding your bad behavior? This is unbelievable. You bribed an Uber driver to smuggle an illegal alien into the country. That's exactly what happened. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:That's right. You're exactly right. That's what I did. I'm a human trafficker
Aaron Francis:here. You are.
Ian Landsman:That's right. Oh my
Aaron Francis:gosh. And if anybody is list all the government shut down, so nobody's listening. Never mind. I was gonna say this is all theoretical, but the government shut down. Nobody's listening.
Aaron Francis:Okay. Carry on.
Ian Landsman:A great episode of Andor. Nobody's listening in the big fascist government. I don't know if you did you watch Andor? You didn't watch Andor? No.
Ian Landsman:Oh, it's one of my favorite episodes of TV ever. Nobody's listening. Yeah. So we get there. The best part about when you bribe your Uber driver, k, is they wanna come back for more bribes.
Aaron Francis:I bet.
Ian Landsman:So he's like, listen. You wanna come back? Just call me up, and I'll come back and get you.
Aaron Francis:Mhmm.
Ian Landsman:So I was like, great. So now I have my ride home set, which was just gonna be later that night. I wasn't spending the night. It was great. Played poker.
Ian Landsman:I was winning fantastically. Huge amounts of fake Canadian money, which isn't really worth that much money, but it seemed like a lot of money because it sounds like a lot when you have it, but then it's only
Aaron Francis:worth it one colorful. You know?
Ian Landsman:Yeah. Yeah. That was fine. I bluffed it all off on a big bluff and a hand I shouldn't have been in. I had the jack five suited, which is a bad hand, but, you know, I was kind of splashing around because we're just having fun at the table.
Ian Landsman:It was a it was a good bluff, though. The guy should have folded probably definitely would have folded a bunch of other hands he has there. So I feel pretty good about it, but whatever. I won't get into poker here right now. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:That was that trip. I I assume Daniel got back. He was spending the night. I haven't heard from him, but hopefully, Daniel is in a
Aaron Francis:Canadian prison right now. Possible.
Ian Landsman:It's a non zero chance. Yeah.
Aaron Francis:There are some very, very, very polite people knocking at your door soon saying, oh, I'm so sorry, sir. Could you please come with us? I'm so
Ian Landsman:sorry. Anything. It's fine. Yeah. So the other the other thing we did, we also did a little gambling night before, I forgot to mention, where we went to the casino with Caleb and taught him how to play craps.
Aaron Francis:So that would be fun.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. Do you play craps? No. You're a craps fan? Oh, let me get you on the craps table.
Ian Landsman:So he you should go listen to his podcast. He goes through that night and talks about it, but that was fun too. So yeah. So I spread a little degeneracy. Lee broke the law.
Ian Landsman:Although, I think
Aaron Francis:Clint and
Ian Landsman:Ben both broke the law.
Aaron Francis:Definitely. Definitely broke I
Ian Landsman:broke the law. Okay. Yes. First of the driver was driving. Hey.
Ian Landsman:Well, I'm not legally responsible for Daniel Colborne. Okay? Like, he's not my kid. He's an adult. He takes you know, it's fine.
Aaron Francis:Somebody's gotta be responsible for him.
Ian Landsman:Somebody's gotta go
Aaron Francis:to jail. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:Oh, okay. So I think that's why you're live. If they do it, it sounds like they may do it every other year or something like that. But if they do it again, highly recommended, super fun, chill, laid back, everything you'd think it would be. Very, very entertaining conference.
Aaron Francis:You've got one on here that's just says Aaron MC, which obviously piques my curiosity. So what what is why are live Aaron MC?
Ian Landsman:I had notes in here. See, that's why I need outro where the notes just come up.
Aaron Francis:Well, I'm losing hope every day just for the record on that. But, yes, this says Aaron MC. I will be your outro.
Ian Landsman:Oh, on Kelvin's podcast, he talked about this at kind of the hardest part he thought was like the emceeing. He has no appreciation for you and what you do.
Aaron Francis:That's very nice.
Ian Landsman:That was very nice. And I think, yeah, I think next, you know, next time, we just gotta outsource the emceeing. It's it's too hard to run the show and MC. Like Yep. It's it's too much to do, I think, in general.
Ian Landsman:They made it work, and it was fine. It was probably one of the clunkier parts, especially till they kinda got their feet under them. Then I think it was totally fine. But but I also think just having done this myself, I would not necessarily wanna be running it and doing a talk and being MC. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:Like, that's kind of a lot. Especially with
Aaron Francis:like a whole lot.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. And especially if you're gonna go the what they chose to do, which I think they could make a different choice here, but that they chose to do was do a question or two after the talk, which, like, when I did the Lyricon, we didn't really do that. Was like, okay. Get off the stage. Get off the next one.
Aaron Francis:Yeah.
Ian Landsman:Right? So I'm just I'm seeing, like you know, there was a couple times maybe something funny came up and we had a little banter, but it wasn't like I'm going to ask every single person a question, which is how you do it and is how LaraCon does it for the most part. So, you know, current LaraCon. So I think you could make a different decision there, and then you're just, like, getting up there and be like, thanks for coming next Mhmm. Speaker, which is a little more straightforward.
Ian Landsman:But, you know, if not, I think and then just in general, of course, you in particular would be awesome to have there, and I think it would be fun. So maybe we'll get you out there.
Aaron Francis:I would love that. I would do it. Yeah. I would totally
Ian Landsman:do it. He's committed. We got him. We got him, Caleb. Yep.
Ian Landsman:He's on. Alright.
Aaron Francis:That'd be fun.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. So that was great. It was great. Go to Buffalo. Use LiveWire.
Ian Landsman:Good stuff. Very good stuff.
Aaron Francis:Alright. Let's before we lose all of our listeners because of what you're about to talk about, why don't we give these these these poor sponsors? Let's read their ads before we before we Laravel new once again.
Ian Landsman:You think I'm gonna lose listeners on this or people gonna like rage quit the show? You know? Just like
Aaron Francis:Jesse is in the gym right now and he's adding weights to his sets because he's so serious.
Ian Landsman:Poor Jesse. He's his heart rate. He's got the
Aaron Francis:he's got
Ian Landsman:the watch on.
Aaron Francis:He's weight lifting right now.
Ian Landsman:It's just off the charts. It's like you're way in the red danger zone, dude. You gotta chill out. He's not even lifting the weights right now. It's just from listening.
Ian Landsman:You know? He's at he's at 200 beats a minute there. Brutal. Alright. Let's talk we'll talk about Jesse.
Ian Landsman:Bento, our favorite email marketing solution here. The email marketing and CRM platform teams actually love send your product, marketing, and transactional email with Bento. One app, all your marketing needs. Obviously, huge supporter of the show from day one, so thanks to Bento. Check them out at bentonow.com.
Ian Landsman:And Flare by Spotsy, all in one error tracking and performance monitoring for your Laravel application. Flareapp.i0/performance-monitoring or get the, you know, the overview of everything they do just at flareapp.io. So check them out. Thanks again to Spotsy for sponsoring the show. Alright.
Aaron Francis:Alright. I'll open the segment.
Ian Landsman:Okay.
Aaron Francis:What the hell?
Ian Landsman:Just had a two minute segment. Come on. That's
Aaron Francis:That's my opening. You did Laravel new again.
Ian Landsman:First of all, it just feels so right when you're there in the terminal and you just type Laravel new, you know, and just
Aaron Francis:You're an addict. Good. Yeah. Good. So I
Ian Landsman:had no choice. Had no choice.
Aaron Francis:No. Didn't. Have a choice.
Ian Landsman:So here's here's the deal. First of all, I tried to not do it. I did try. Mhmm. And I was like, you know what?
Ian Landsman:Let me just see how far I can get with AI. Right? AI is taking over the world. It's gonna be our overlord soon. It should be able to to convert this.
Ian Landsman:Of course, it it did a terrible job. It was insane. What it did was insane. Like, so
Aaron Francis:I've been I've been telling you, but but keep going. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:So I try first of all, didn't it doesn't know about Livewire four. Right? And the whole reason to convert this is, like, to get to Livewire four. So I have
Aaron Francis:one of old docs. The inciting incident is upgrade outro v two Right. To LiveWire. It was on LiveWire three and you wanted to upgrade it to LiveWire four.
Ian Landsman:Yes. And that's Okay. I mean, it could upgrade in place. Like, nothing breaks. So it's fine.
Ian Landsman:Like, there's almost nothing you can do to upgrade three to four. Just in terms of LiveWire itself, I could just upgrade it. Right? But, like, the point is I wanted to use the new things. Like, I want a new implement I wanted single file components.
Ian Landsman:I want Sure. Sure. Sure. To use various I want to use the new routing setup. There's a lot of things I wanna
Aaron Francis:use. Mhmm.
Ian Landsman:K? So it's not just like, oh, it's IY4, which would be easy. No. It's like, we gotta recode some of this stuff. So And
Aaron Francis:can you imagine, like, recoding stuff? Can you imagine that? Yeah. I can. An idiot?
Aaron Francis:Like, you sit down at your keyboard and, use your fingers, like, ugh. I
Ian Landsman:could do that.
Aaron Francis:Can you imagine? I could
Ian Landsman:do that. That's We're not there yet. First I tried the AI, and I bundle up the LiveWire four docs and whatever and blah blah. It goes off for half an hour. It does stuff.
Ian Landsman:The the first time the first time, it gets to the end. Okay? It's coded a bunch of stuff. Okay? It gets to the end, and his final message to me is it reverted it all to No.
Ian Landsman:Three dot six dot four LiveWire. There's nothing in git. It undid every everything it did in
Aaron Francis:This is a delight. It reverted. That's amazing.
Ian Landsman:So that didn't work. So then I messed with some stuff. I got to do an actual implementation, but it was all trash as you might expect. So okay. That's not gonna work.
Aaron Francis:K.
Ian Landsman:So I could, of course, go through line by line with the AI and have it do it, or I could go through and I started to me go through because I forget the AI. I'm just gonna, like, start moving shit around. Right? So I'm in there. I'm moving shit around.
Ian Landsman:It just feels icky. You know, when you have all the stuff pointing in one place, in a different place, now you're changing the whole structure of the app, not just, like, little parts, like, the whole where the files live. There's a lot of stuff that's changing. And I just didn't feel good about it. You know?
Ian Landsman:Stuff's gonna get left orphaned in places. Not trying to have weird orphan stuff. The only path forward was Laravel duo.
Aaron Francis:It was the only path forward. This sounds so much like post hoc justification, but you know what? It's great for content. It is. So I will I will allow it.
Aaron Francis:This is object this is objectively insane, but it's gonna drive a lot of comments. And so, you know, I'm kinda happy. That's great. That's great for me.
Ian Landsman:So I'll take the edge off it slightly. Okay? Okay. Here's thing. It's not the same as my last Laravel Nu.
Aaron Francis:Okay.
Ian Landsman:So my last Laravel Nu was like, okay, we are back at a blank slate.
Aaron Francis:Right.
Ian Landsman:I don't like how any of this stuff works in the UI, and we are going to reconceptualize what's going on here. Mhmm. That is not this. So this is already I'm already almost done because it's much faster. All the actions and stuff are fine.
Ian Landsman:Move them over.
Aaron Francis:K. K.
Ian Landsman:All a bunch of other setup stuff in a middleware I have that does some shit and like whatever. All that stuff, move it over. Move it over. Okay. Fine.
Ian Landsman:And all the like UI stuff I've done, I'm not getting into the UI. That will eventually, as I get through the last few parts I have to do, which is like kind of the biggest chunkiest stuff that was implemented, like that's all just moving over as is. I'm not redoing the UI, I'm not rethinking about how stuff works. So that part's all the same. Now I will have to reimplement some of that stuff in the LiveWire four way with the new LiveWire four sorting tricks and some of the other things that are been added and make it faster, better, stronger.
Ian Landsman:So I will have to, like, hand code and think through those parts of it. K. So there'll be a little work there. But that's like literally a couple full page components that are at that stage of like, that's a fair amount of work and I'm gonna have to work through it. 85% of this is copy and pasting.
Ian Landsman:Most of the rest is not much more than copy and pasting, and a couple you know, there'll be a couple hours of, like, work work. And then I'll be back where I was. So this is a much shorter
Aaron Francis:Okay.
Ian Landsman:Much shorter Laravel new. It's not it's not quite as crazy.
Aaron Francis:It's not quite it's not quite as crazy. I will I will grant you that. Okay. It is surprising, I will say. I am surprised, but it is not quite as crazy.
Aaron Francis:That's That is acceptable. Crazy.
Ian Landsman:I think the people will understand.
Aaron Francis:They won't. But are we still shooting for are we still shooting for internal use before the calendar year is out?
Ian Landsman:I think so.
Aaron Francis:Okay. So that's a no.
Ian Landsman:Oh, no.
Aaron Francis:I think
Ian Landsman:it's a yes. Because you know what? Thank you, Caleb. Caleb Porzio saved me a lot of work of stuff I would've had to figure out, which was weird, ugly stuff like cross column sorting and whatever and weird edge bugs, I'm sure, and all that. So now this why this has hurt me the last couple weeks, I will tell you, in terms of motivation to work on it, which I basically haven't worked on in couple weeks.
Ian Landsman:Because I'm like, once Caleb told me he's doing this, I'm like, well, like, this is like Wait now and see.
Aaron Francis:Yeah.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. I kinda had to wait and see. You know, I could have done other stuff, of course, but it's like, I'm just gonna wait because I and then I knew I didn't wanna go too far forward and he introduces other cool stuff that I wish I used and all that. So I was like, I'm just gonna do nothing. And that's what I did.
Ian Landsman:It's fine. And now I'm ready to move forward. So I think internal use, end of year, I'm still on board with.
Aaron Francis:See, this this is why you're this is why you're the boss. Because you kinda just, you know, you kinda just futz around, and then someone else goes off, does all the work, comes back, and you're like, hey. Alright. We did it. We did it.
Aaron Francis:That is a team win. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's great.
Aaron Francis:There's something that I could learn there.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. Sometimes you gotta I gotta have other people in the mix with you. That's what I'm saying. Whether they work for you or they're just, you know, you you're just an idea man. In this case, was just not an idea man.
Ian Landsman:I'm like, let me expose you to the idea. Mhmm. And Caleb was like, holy cow. That's a good idea. And he went off and did some cool stuff with it.
Ian Landsman:That now benefits all of us, which is really awesome and cool.
Aaron Francis:That is awesome.
Ian Landsman:So we'll see.
Aaron Francis:Okay. I still believe in you. Think you can get there. Think you can get there. Think you can do it.
Ian Landsman:That's yeah. I think it's possible. I mean, I'm not a 100%, but that's my goal. I think it's possible. I'm still at, like, 75% chance it happens.
Aaron Francis:Alright. It's just us. It's just you, me, and producer Dave. That's all I'm looking for.
Ian Landsman:But you know I'm not a guy who ships, like I don't wanna ship something that's, like, nonfunctional, really, know? Like, we got pretty functional. I I agree. Yes. I do.
Ian Landsman:Dude, that's gonna be great stickers. We mustn't ship. That has that. We have to do that. That's a great sticker.
Ian Landsman:That's a great sticker. You know, sometimes you just it's like, I enjoy this part of the process of the refactoring and time wasting
Aaron Francis:Mhmm.
Ian Landsman:And futzing. Yep. It's all part of it. You know? It's it gives you time.
Ian Landsman:See, here's the here's the thing other people don't say about this. It gives you time to think about what you're doing. Mhmm. So you're reevaluating, you're clarifying, so which can be bad sometimes, but sometimes it's good. So far for me, think it's been mostly positive in this round.
Aaron Francis:I will I will say the the subconscious information processing phase is extremely valuable. I do this whenever I'm prepping a talk is you just have to start as early as possible and then let it rest. Right. Exactly. Then you'll hear things in podcasts.
Aaron Francis:You're like, oh, that's a good like, I'll add that to my mental, you know, folio for this talk. Or you'll be thinking about, you know, oh, I just thought up the perfect example while I was driving to get, you know, Chipotle. And so there is, like, I I totally agree. So the background processing is very, very, very valuable. So that part I I agree with.
Aaron Francis:And, of course, it's very different because it is, you know, your side project. You're not trying to MD hack to 10 k MRR to support your family. So lots of the lots of the normal rules don't apply. Still insane, but, you know, you're free to be insane on your own time. That's fine.
Aaron Francis:We all are. So okay.
Ian Landsman:That's how I feel about it. Yes. If I this is like, I think I said in the very beginning of this whole, like, when we when I started out shows, like, this is not for, like, you should not necessarily follow my path here, listener, who is wants to have their own business and does not have their own business yet. Like, this is maybe maybe it is the play, but maybe it's not the play. Like, probably you should be trying to get out to market quicker because it's important to find out if anybody even cares about your idea, whereas I don't care if anybody cares about my idea in this case.
Ian Landsman:And so I'll just gonna do whatever I want. So that's, like, the the difference there.
Aaron Francis:Good spot to be in.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. It's a nice spot to be in. So, you know, the other thing is I have a lot of other stuff going on. Right? Like, family stuff, house stuff, business stuff, and the mainline business.
Ian Landsman:That just takes me longer. Like, this is where, like, there's, you know, getting older, the brain's foggier, all the stuff. Mhmm. It's like having the extra time, I feel like, is also nice because it doesn't there's not that much opportunity to have those thoughts you're talking about where stuff just pops in your head. So it's like, oh, just I just physically need more time to have more opportunity to have more of those thoughts creep in that are like, oh, this would be a cool thing, whatever, blah blah blah.
Aaron Francis:The old the old mental speed's slowing down a little bit, so
Ian Landsman:we gotta give
Aaron Francis:it a little more wall clock time. Yeah. I get that.
Ian Landsman:That's fucking Exactly. And it's filled with other stuff. You know? It's like there's just not the room always to let those things get in there. So yeah.
Ian Landsman:That's that's my excuse system anyway. I think it's pretty
Aaron Francis:cool. It's great. I have never heard such rich and varied excuses. This is amazing.
Ian Landsman:You have plenty of excuses.
Aaron Francis:Yeah. This is awesome. Everyone take note that these excuses are well thought out.
Ian Landsman:This is what they could be learning about when they don't ship Mhmm. I will come up with very good reasons why I haven't shipped Totally. And why my life isn't what I want it to be. Mhmm. This is the oh, I have a big list of very good excuses.
Ian Landsman:So take that listeners as a
Aaron Francis:Another another great takeaway on today's episode. We are unreliable and full of excuses. Tell your kids to listen to the show so they can to they can learn as well. On a different note, my life is exactly it's exactly what I want. We're doing great over here.
Aaron Francis:Yes. We're doing great. Woo hoo. We found we clicked in. We we found a little we found a little rhythm.
Ian Landsman:Okay.
Aaron Francis:The social media blocking has been instrumental. Yes. Instrumental.
Ian Landsman:I love it.
Aaron Francis:Life changing. Wow. I'm still I'm still blocked till noon every day. I've started blocking, more often in the evenings as well. Mhmm.
Aaron Francis:Like, before obviously overnight, it it bricks itself so that in the morning when I wake up, but I've started doing it voluntarily before bedtime as well. And I've started reading books. Woah. I know.
Ian Landsman:When you're
Aaron Francis:all overheard of book? Both. So I have, for drive around time, I have an audio book. And I've replaced many podcasts. Not all.
Aaron Francis:I still listen to some. I've replaced many podcasts with the audio book Mhmm. Which right now is Cal Newport's, digital minimalism. He's the guy that wrote deep work. He's written a couple others.
Aaron Francis:This one is digital minimalism. It's very good. So that's my drive around book. When I get to work, when I get here to the studio in the morning, I start by like spending about thirty minutes reading. It's great.
Aaron Francis:I come in, I've got my coffee that I just drove through and picked up, walk in, open the sliding glass door because it's cold outside now. And I sit there. It is. It hits like sometimes it gets
Ian Landsman:into the
Aaron Francis:fifties. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:Oh, wow.
Aaron Francis:I I know. That's what I'm saying.
Ian Landsman:Mhmm.
Aaron Francis:And then read for about thirty minutes, and then I'm reading at home. So I have my office book, and I have my home book
Ian Landsman:Oh, double book.
Aaron Francis:Double triple because of the audio. Yeah. At home, I'm reading, a book called The Intellectual Life. And I kid you not, this is the best book I've ever read.
Ian Landsman:Oh, wow.
Aaron Francis:The best book I have ever read.
Ian Landsman:It's an old timey book? Like
Aaron Francis:It is an old timey book. It was written in the twenties. Written in the twenties
Ian Landsman:Yeah.
Aaron Francis:By you'll have to forgive me. I don't know my orders very well. I think it's a Dominican monk. Maybe a Benedictine monk. I don't know.
Ian Landsman:Okay.
Aaron Francis:That's not really my my side of the religion. I don't know the monks that well. But it's really interesting. It's it's interesting how much he's like, oh, in this day and age in this day and age, you really have to fight hard for your attention. And I'm like, my my brother in Christ, you have no idea.
Aaron Francis:Could
Ian Landsman:you imagine dropping that guy into 2025?
Aaron Francis:Oh, no way.
Ian Landsman:There you are.
Aaron Francis:Like, explode. And it's really interesting to read a book that's a 100 years old, which is, you know, ostensibly the same spiritual genre as business books. Right? It's not a business book, but it's like, you know, self improvement, that kind of stuff. So it's close enough to business books.
Ian Landsman:It's it's not a fictional book from a 100 years ago, you know, which is like it's irrelevant. Like, that's a 100 years old kind
Aaron Francis:of It's not like a book about, you know, the Spanish war. It is like how to improve yourself, but a 100 ago. Yeah. And these days, business books, self develop personal development, self help, whatever. It's like they had one idea and then they filled a 180 pages with one idea.
Aaron Francis:With one idea. This book, every single page is something new. It's all built around this, like, how to live, like, a life of, like, studiousness and seeking, like, to seeking knowledge and truth. It's all built around that idea. But it's not just like, I'm I haven't ever read atomic habits atomic habits, but I get I get it from the title.
Aaron Francis:Right. You know? I I kinda I could read a blog post about atomic habits and be like, yeah, got the idea. This one, every chapter, every page is something new and practical. Very, very, very practical.
Aaron Francis:It's amazing. It's so good. I'm only like, I guess now I'm probably 60% of the way through. But, yeah, I read a lot this weekend and I'm just like highlighting stuff on every page. So I'm feeling great.
Ian Landsman:What's your note taking strategy for the physical book? Are you just physically highlighting and that's it?
Aaron Francis:You bringing digital or No. Physically highlight. I haven't gotten any further than that. In fact, at the end, one of the last chapters in the book is about note taking. And so we'll see.
Aaron Francis:That may change. Should've read that part. Yeah. I should've started there first. But, yeah, I right now, and this is how I do my technical studies as well as I just, as I'm reading and something stands out to me, I highlight it.
Aaron Francis:When I'm doing technical reading, I also have I don't know if I have any around here, but I have a sticky note flags just like post it notes, colorful post it notes that I've cut such that they're really thin and a little bit short. And then I just flag the top of the page so that I know every page that has a flag has a highlight and I should go back and review it before I start Oh. You know, prepping the material. So I'm not, like, flipping page by page and being like, I haven't highlighted anything in 30 pages. But on this one, I I haven't done that.
Aaron Francis:But I imagine I don't know. I imagine I'll go back through and maybe write out some synopses of, like, the chapters and maybe pull out some of my favorite highlights or something. I'm not really sure. I'll let you know when I get to the note taking section of
Ian Landsman:the But
Aaron Francis:it's very good. It is it is I didn't know that this was a religious book at all. And I wouldn't say that it's actually religious. It talks a lot about like, you know, how seeking good and and truth is similar to seeking God. And so it like combines those things somewhat often.
Aaron Francis:I had no idea it was, you know, written by a monk. I don't even know where I found it. I probably saw it on Twitter. Was like, I'll buy it. It showed up.
Aaron Francis:And then, like, two months later, I'm like, I wonder what this book is. And I opened it So that part was like a pleasant surprise. You know, the beginning is all about why this is a good thing for the I think they continue to say Catholic, but why this is a good thing for the Christian person to do, to seek knowledge and be studious and like focus and concentrate. And I'm like, yeah, I'm on board with that. I happen to believe that as well.
Aaron Francis:But then the rest of the book is all about like how to prepare your evenings and your mornings and the fact that you have responsibilities and like you can't just like, wander out into the wilderness and how it's like you do you can become an intellectual on two hours a day. You just need to focus, and here are ways to focus, and here are things you can do. And it's like, this is amazing. This is so perfect for this like phase I'm going through of like, I need to get my brain back. And I just happened to pick this up off my nightstand at the perfect time.
Aaron Francis:So I am just thrilled to death with this book. It's fantastic. Okay.
Ian Landsman:This is exciting. This sounds I like the I like the idea. Is it a big fat book? Is it a skinny book? What's what's the
Aaron Francis:thing little guy. You know? It's a five by seven paperback.
Ian Landsman:Little bit.
Aaron Francis:But it's like 200 pages. But it's a five by seven paperback. So it's not like a big it's not like a big textbook or anything. It's like an old school. It's kinda like think and grow rich if you've seen that, in the bookstores.
Aaron Francis:It's like a little little, you know, paperback you buy at the airport. But it's it's you can just tell it's written from another time. But it is it is pretty dense. I handed it to Jennifer.
Ian Landsman:That's my question. Yeah.
Aaron Francis:Yeah. I handed it to Jennifer, and she's like, I'm gonna be honest. I had to reread some of these lines, like, five or six times. It's like it's just like a whole paragraph is one sentence just filled with commas, and you're like, oh, man. We don't write like that anymore, do we?
Aaron Francis:Yeah. So it it takes a minute to, like I, I recommended it to Jason Beggs, I told him, like, dude, I had to, like, relearn how to read, it feels like. I'm, like, reading this. I'm, hold on. I didn't catch any of that back up.
Aaron Francis:And so I'm getting there. I'm getting used to it.
Ian Landsman:It's good practice for your focusing too because you have to, like, you have to, like, quickly read it. You have to, like, oh, I have to pay attention to every sentence and, like, really figure out what this is trying to say here.
Aaron Francis:Exactly. Yes. Okay. So that has been delightful, and I've been just blowing through these intro to Postgres videos. I've been, like, just knocking them out.
Aaron Francis:And so I did it a little bit different this time in that I prepared all of the material in written form. Normally, I'm like, I get an outline with some bullet points. I record a I sit down to record a video, and I like prepare the video and then record it. And then I prepare the next video and then record it, which ends up taking a long time. Right.
Aaron Francis:But I think in some, you know, you you have to spend the time somewhere. And this time I decided to spend the time up upfront preparing all of the videos. So that took a while. And now I'm just like going out there and hitting record and, and doing it. And it's like, it's working the chalkboard.
Aaron Francis:I'm using it at times. I don't I don't feel like it's kitschy. I don't feel like I have to use it. I'm still using the screen a ton. But there are times where I'm like, if I were in the studio, I would be like using my hands to try to like, you know, illustrate some point that really I only I am visualizing.
Aaron Francis:And now out there, can just draw it and be like, see, when this goes here and that goes there, it's like, hey, Bob's your uncle. And it just works so much better. And so that was my last big fear was I did all this thing, all this stuff. It looks beautiful. But in practice, is it going to be helpful?
Aaron Francis:Is it going to be useful? And I have decided it is very helpful, and it is very useful.
Ian Landsman:Very cool. Jamie had some feedback for you on this topic, which is she likes the idea of the bathroom set.
Aaron Francis:She does.
Ian Landsman:She wants the bathroom set. Okay. Okay? But, like, in the concept of I don't know if you know have you ever watched, like, Alton Brown?
Aaron Francis:I've never heard that before
Ian Landsman:since then. Oh, man. Alright. So Alton Brown, you should look him up on, like, Instagram. It be the
Aaron Francis:best place.
Ian Landsman:But Alton Brown is a famous chef, and he had a food TV show, like, in the nineties or early two thousands or whatever. And it was awesome because he's, like, really science based.
Aaron Francis:K.
Ian Landsman:And he would have all these shticks, and he'd be, like, basically in different rooms and stuff. And so he's kinda brought that to Instagram. So that shows, you know, long over, I'm and sure he's very rich or whatever. But now he does it just himself as people do now on Instagram and probably TikTok, wherever. And he's always in, a different spot.
Ian Landsman:And I don't know if you can
Aaron Francis:take
Ian Landsman:it this far. Right? But, like, he's in his kitchen. He's on his back patio. He's wherever.
Ian Landsman:Like, he's and he's got, like, oh, I took these like, he did one recently where he was talking about oh, jeez. I don't know. I don't know if it was, like, some kind of protein or, like, whatever, gluten or something. And it was like, he made them you know, he, like, made the molecules out of pipe cleaners. And he, squished them all together and, like, put them in a thing and talks how they expand or whatever.
Ian Landsman:So he's, like, always doing, like, just little practical things like that and in different sets. So that's all
Aaron Francis:It's vibe.
Ian Landsman:Kind of vibe. Yeah. Like
Aaron Francis:Sucks it.
Ian Landsman:Maybe you just show up in the bathroom one day. Right? And you're like, but you're writing on the screen, like, with one of those on the screen writer things, right, that records it or, like, whatever. Not like you're going to the bathroom. Just like as another set option.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. Right. Or maybe you're out by the pool one day or whatever. But, like, I thought it gonna be interesting to keep it lively, you know, and just have some different because that's something you never ever see in any these kind of videos. Like, three, four, five different sets.
Aaron Francis:You know? It's always just like one leaving their desk. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:Exactly. Yeah. So so anyway, there's there's your feedback from Jamie.
Aaron Francis:Tell I appreciate that, Jamie. I appreciate the thoughtfulness. Okay. I will consider that. I'll look up Alton Brown and see if there's anything to be gleaned there.
Ian Landsman:He's just cool in general. It's everybody's check out Alton Brown. Really fun food content. But anyway okay. So the set's working.
Aaron Francis:Sets working.
Ian Landsman:The videos are working. How far are the
Aaron Francis:I'd say we're about slightly less than halfway through on the actual recording. And the editor is crushing it. The new new editor. So this is the guy that edited mastering Postgres and high performance SQLite.
Ian Landsman:So perfect.
Aaron Francis:It's one of yeah. One of the guys that Steve found and is friends with, and he actually lives in Idaho, near Steve. And, yeah, he's doing he's doing the multicam and audio processing. He's just doing it all. And it's like Yep.
Aaron Francis:It's working. It's expensive, which I've said before, but Get what pay for. Yep. You get what you pay for. And I want somebody that is going to, one, do the work on time and then two, do it well.
Aaron Francis:And he's, you know, he's doing both. So
Ian Landsman:Nice.
Aaron Francis:It's working. I feel like things have maybe turned a corner. Like, sorry to Fideloper. I think the dread might be receding the existential dread. Yeah.
Aaron Francis:We might be at either I guess we're at an ebb. The the dread was at a flow for a while, and we might be at an ebb. We're either waxing or waning, you know, whichever phase of the moon is where it's Who knows? Which is with you. But I think we're getting better.
Aaron Francis:I think we're doing good.
Ian Landsman:So now what about are you gonna give yourself some metric of some sort for so this has been paid for and it's being released free. Right? So in some ways, it's like, well, okay. Like, you've been paid to do the work, you do the work, you ship the work, that's kind of it.
Aaron Francis:Yep. Yep.
Ian Landsman:But are we gonna add some kind of metric about, like, how many mastering Postgres courses we sell off this launch of the free course or, like, I don't know, or maybe just views and getting yourself out there. But I don't know if I feel like there you could construct something there.
Aaron Francis:There there should be metrics. The wait list for intro to Postgres has gotten many thousands of sign ups. Oh. And so Okay. I feel like that is an objective metric metric, which I am happy with.
Aaron Francis:Moving forward, so that's like a leading indicator. I think moving forward, I need to know how many people sign up for what will be the subscription platform of database school. How many people sign up for the free tier of that to watch one of these courses that has been corporate sponsored? Right? So Supabase is sponsoring Intro to Postgres.
Aaron Francis:How many people watch the first three videos of Intro to Postgres get hit with the email gate that says, hey, this is still free, but you gotta sign up and then convert to signed up. Because at that point, then I feel like that's a that's somebody that's captured into my world that I can like, you know, market on Black Friday or tell them about mastering Postgres or whatever. Whatever. And so there needs to be some metric for that because I will be doing, I will be doing more of these going forward. So Right.
Aaron Francis:I've said before, Supabase is in process. I have another deal that has been papered. It's it's signed. It's done. We're we're good.
Aaron Francis:Have another I have another deal that is in negotiations, pretty far. Like, we've gotten to dollar amounts and deliverables. It has not been signed. And then I have, another deal that is just in like exploratory phase. And so this might be the pattern going forward, which is do these do these big deals and then do the other stuff.
Aaron Francis:And I'm like, I I think it could work. The deals are big enough where if I do a few of them, like, you know, I can pay Kelsey and I can, you know, pay the mortgage and keep building something here. So we might be on the path to sustainability, which feels
Ian Landsman:really good. Yeah. I mean, even, like, at the very least, you know you have now a year to two years of runway out there to give everything a chance to happen. Yep. Right?
Ian Landsman:And Mhmm. That's certainly sufficient time to see if people want to buy database training on subscription and all that kind of stuff. And and I think the key part of all this too is you have it's like, it's not just the money giving you runway, but it's giving you the opportunity to collect email addresses and market to people on an ongoing basis. So that's kind of the real value long term is that Yep. Now you're bringing these people into the fold who hopefully you can convert to sales.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. I mean, that all sounds really good. Yeah.
Aaron Francis:Would say on I would say on the corporate deals alone, I think database school is the thing I will focus on for at least another eighteen months. Yeah. Yep. Like, there was there was a there was a period of time where it was like, I'm gonna try this, and if this thing doesn't work, it's over. Yeah.
Aaron Francis:And I think I have enough I have enough indication now that like, maybe the subscription base is a miss or it takes a super long time to build or something like that. But I have enough like corporate money that's saying, I want you to do this for us Right. That I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep going.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. Well, I think there's also two, like, you know, you don't know where you're going. Right? The journey is the destination, all that stuff. So, like, you're out there, you're selling something, people are paying money for it, which is more than most people ever even get to.
Ian Landsman:Right? Like, you're already that is successful. And so now that gives you lots of options. So phase one is database school. Ideally, that just works out.
Ian Landsman:People are paying subscriptions. These two things obviously work together nicely. And then three years from now, maybe you're even transitioning away from more corporate stuff, and you just have database school, whatever. K? That's like the a plan.
Ian Landsman:But whatever. People who like to pay you for this would probably like to pay you, or different types of companies would pay you for different versions of this same thing in different programming ish industries, which would open up a whole new group of
Aaron Francis:Mhmm.
Ian Landsman:Corporations to do stuff. And then whatever. So you have lots of options. And but, yeah, I think that's all good. And you can kinda see where the road takes you as you go, you know?
Aaron Francis:It's entirely possible that, like, the subscription thing for the end user falls totally flat. Everything becomes free, and I just let database companies put their names on database school. Like, just Content. You buy ads on this website where there are videos. It's like I
Ian Landsman:mean, I think that's totally a viable solution. Yeah. And I mean, just doing more even some of that stuff creates its way back to YouTube even or whatever, and you have sponsorship opportunities there, and, like, you just do an ad based business, totally standard. I do think, like, the data the nice thing about the database zone is that the companies there have plenty of money
Aaron Francis:They do.
Ian Landsman:And not a lot of ways to reach their customers Right. That are obvious. And so that part is really nice because there's not that many sort of database influencers, and you are one of them. And so that's a pretty good spot. So Then it's just like, how much can I charge those companies?
Ian Landsman:How much can I charge individuals? Maybe yeah. Maybe you can't charge individuals. Maybe individuals won't pay. Fine.
Ian Landsman:Then the companies could pay, which is how lots of content works. Right? It's not you're not inventing anything here. This is just like, yeah, charge for advertising on content people like, but are not willing to pay for themselves. Like, that's the whole basis of YouTube and a million other products.
Ian Landsman:Right? Television, the whole thing, it's all that. So
Aaron Francis:A little a little company called Google. I mean,
Ian Landsman:that's Google.
Aaron Francis:To Right. Make a little money off ads. Like, it's been
Ian Landsman:that before. Search the Internet for free, and then what you're paying for, you know, with is your attention on these ads. And so I think that's fine. Maybe it's even like somewhere in the middle, right, where, like, maybe there's a core group of database people who are willing to pay and to charge them more.
Aaron Francis:And Yeah. Maybe so.
Ian Landsman:You're not trying to go so wide where it's like, well, there's only a sliver of the group that's willing to pay, but they're actually price elastic
Aaron Francis:Right.
Ian Landsman:And they're willing to pay twice or three times as much as I thought as the price point of, like, what I feel like the most I could get away with for the average programmer. Right? And so maybe you can charge them $40 a month when you thought you can only charge 19 to the average program or whatever. Who knows? Whatever the price are.
Ian Landsman:So maybe that's even, like, ends up being a thing where there is some, like, more advanced stuff or whatever, and it's just for the subscriptions. But you have the mainstream stuff that's for that's ad supported. There are lots of options there, I do think. And yeah. Well, you're all you gotta do the work, which as we talked about.
Ian Landsman:So you're doing it. It's happening. We're gonna find out which is gonna be very exciting from my perspective for the show.
Aaron Francis:A a huge anxiety reducer too is, like Yeah. Having done a lot of the work now, I feel like it's good. And I feel like it's
Ian Landsman:Yeah. Okay.
Aaron Francis:It's it's moving.
Ian Landsman:That's good.
Aaron Francis:I think there was this big question in the back of my mind of when I get out there and start teaching, is it gonna work? Or am I gonna realize, yeah, I just You've been doing though. Well, I know that I can teach. I I I don't have any doubts about that. I know that in person I can teach at a whiteboard.
Aaron Francis:I did that for many, many years. The question is, can I get out there in this new format with all this new technology? We talked about the lav mic, I think, and how stressful that was. All these all these all these cameras, all these files, all this. And then can I do the, the switch from screen to, to board in a way that is like compelling and helpful, not just different?
Aaron Francis:Different is good, but different is not good enough. Helpful. It has to be compelling. And until I actually did it, it's a it's an open question. There is a possibility it wouldn't it didn't work, but I'm I'm convinced that it works.
Ian Landsman:There you go. I guess that part of it is like, since you're you're not using the like, having the animation or, like, that element of things like that transition. So yeah. But even that transition could always be solid with money. Like, at the end of day, like, if you had to charge more or make it work and hire somebody to do this motion graphic stuff, like, could happen even if
Aaron Francis:it's What if it would
Ian Landsman:have Cuts into the margins and blows.
Aaron Francis:It would have been emotional. Like, it's god dang it. I've freaking messed up again. So that would have been frustrating. But, yes, it would have been doable.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. Okay. So that sounds good. When are we launching that sucker?
Aaron Francis:I don't know. Next couple weeks probably.
Ian Landsman:Yeah. Before Black Friday, hopefully? Yeah. Mhmm.
Aaron Francis:Okay. Yep. Gonna try to roll
Ian Landsman:idea of go ahead.
Aaron Francis:Gonna try to roll the whole thing into like ensure to post Chris's out, Black Friday discount, get everything all at once. And then and then quickly follow. This is breaking news. Not to you. You know this.
Aaron Francis:But for the dear listener, quickly follow with, advent of SQL. So I'm gonna do a a December challenge on, like, SQL, you know, exercises, storylines, that kind of stuff. So something fun for the people to practice with. So
Ian Landsman:Yeah. Do wanna tell that story? Or
Aaron Francis:Yeah. I would love to. There's a Oh, let's do there's a guy that reached out and let me see what his new one is. Here we go. There's a guy that reached out and was like, hey.
Aaron Francis:I own adventofsequel.com. I'm like, that's pretty good. That was pretty good. And he said, I ran it last year, and I've got a few thousand people on the list that ran through these, twenty four or twenty five days of sequel challenges. And I'm like, that's awesome.
Aaron Francis:And the email went on to say, do you want it for free? And I'm like, wait. Wait. What? And so I, you know, I emailed him back and I was like, what are you talking about?
Aaron Francis:Are you sure? And he's like, yeah, I think you're the best person for it. I don't, you know, I don't wanna run it again this year. I'm actually moving on to advent of vibecoding.com. The challenge starts in twenty seven days.
Aaron Francis:So adventofvibecoding.com That's cool. Which is very cool. So Dan Kentfield, whose his Twitter handle is not a vibe coder. So, this is this is good. I think he's actually like a proper engineer.
Aaron Francis:And he's doing this as a way to like help vibe coders become proper engineers. Right. So, yeah, he reached out and was like, sure. I'll hand it over to you. Let me transfer the domain.
Aaron Francis:Let me get the email export. Like, here's all the challenges I did Like, last good luck. Have fun. And I was like, are you kidding me? So That's crazy.
Aaron Francis:I told him I told him that at some point in the future, I'll give him, you know, free ad reads, shout outs, whatever, because he refused to let me pay. Right. So y'all definitely go check out advent of vibe coding and be on the listen for more nice things about Dan Kentfield because he's a very nice guy that donated Advent of Sequel to me. Just
Ian Landsman:put yourself out there.
Aaron Francis:I know.
Ian Landsman:People give you business opportunities.
Aaron Francis:So, Kelsey and I are working together on coming up with, you know, challenges and increasing difficulty and light storylines to keep it fun and that kind of stuff. Mhmm. So hopefully, that'll bring in some, cast a wider net than just, like, people that follow me. So Yep. That'll be fun.
Aaron Francis:So thanks to Dan for donating adventofsequel.com.
Ian Landsman:That's cool. I love it.
Aaron Francis:So nice.
Ian Landsman:Crazy. Alright. Alright. We're pretty long here. What do I do?
Ian Landsman:Do we wanna save this other stuff next week? Do we wanna do one more? What do you think? Do you wanna just keep going?
Aaron Francis:I think we should save it. I'm gonna kill the ramp office campaign. The moment has passed. Okay. They got Kevin from the office to do a b to b SaaS campaign, and it was really good.
Aaron Francis:But you know what? Happened a few weeks ago. Now it's out of the cultural value. It's over. Yeah.
Aaron Francis:Let's save let's save. Because I wanna I wanna do help spot twenty year. I wanna give it the justice it deserves. Right. Let's save let's save that one for next time.
Ian Landsman:Alright. Do I close on the horse? Should we close the horse?
Aaron Francis:Let's close on the horse. Give us the details. Is the horse alive?
Ian Landsman:We we made people wait for the horse till the end.
Aaron Francis:We
Ian Landsman:did. People love the horse content. Yeah. We're thinking about pivoting the horse content exclusively. But
Aaron Francis:This is news to me, but yes. Okay. That's great.
Ian Landsman:The the itty bitty guy itty bitty guy, he said he loved the horse content. That's what threw over the top.
Aaron Francis:It is bringing in the sponsors. Yeah.
Ian Landsman:K. What other topics have we
Aaron Francis:talked about? The money. You're right.
Ian Landsman:You're right. You're reference the content. Only horse content. Mhmm. Anyway, I'll keep this short and sweet.
Ian Landsman:We were very scared about the cost of the horse content. Yep. Or the horse not horse content. The horse situation, which I'm not gonna rehash here. Listen to last week.
Ian Landsman:But it turns out everything's okay. The the owner, I think, didn't put us on her insurance like she was supposed to, which is a problem.
Aaron Francis:That is.
Ian Landsman:But she ended up paying for the bills herself so that she can submit them to insurance because, like, you can't you kinda have to, like, be on the insurance. If we had paid the bills, that would have been weird to submit to insurance because we're nobody
Aaron Francis:Mhmm.
Ian Landsman:Since we weren't put on the insurance. So she paid the bill. She's submitting insurance. She's dealing with it. So in the end, we have not lost too much money.
Ian Landsman:We only lost the rest of this lease. So the other last six months of the actual cost of the lease, but we're not paying for the horse anymore in the barn. So that part's okay. So we're kinda getting money back, to speak. And we didn't really pay much of the vet bills in general.
Ian Landsman:Maybe there's, like, gonna be a small What a
Aaron Francis:fantastic outcome.
Ian Landsman:So it's all That's
Aaron Francis:great news.
Ian Landsman:Roses. It's great news. We're not out many thousands of dollars, and, yeah, everything's hunky dory. So we're we're on the horse train still. We gotta find a new horse, but, you know, that is a process.
Aaron Francis:So great that is a great outcome that could have gone totally the other way.
Ian Landsman:There we go.
Aaron Francis:I heard from a friend of the show, Mark Jaquith, that horses can't throw up, and that is why it's so problematic because they can't throw up. And I told him, I wish I was a horse because I hate throwing up. And he said the other option is your stomach explodes. And I was like, hell, hell. Okay.
Aaron Francis:And then four days later, I threw up. Woah. I texted Mark. God. Yeah.
Aaron Francis:I texted Mark and said, I wish I was a horse slash I'm glad I'm not a horse because I vommed. And I freaking hate throwing up. Hate it. Hate it. It's
Ian Landsman:It's the worst.
Aaron Francis:Hate
Ian Landsman:it. The last night of my gallbladder situation before they were, like, hacking it out was, like, the hardest throwing up I've ever done in my life. Like, I had pains in other parts of my body. Things have been strained, like Mhmm. Nuts.
Ian Landsman:But but we can't just walk past this. You were throwing up. What happened?
Aaron Francis:The I
Ian Landsman:don't know. Too much booze?
Aaron Francis:Sick. No. Gosh. No.
Ian Landsman:I poisoning? Like
Aaron Francis:I'm not living that much of a fun life. I don't know. It was not Okay. It wasn't an all night thing, fortunately. So I don't think it was a sickness.
Aaron Francis:It was a one set. You know how waves come in sets? It was a one set. So it was like a it was like a three individual, but a one set. And I have been sick for, you know, a while, but that just looked like a common cold.
Ian Landsman:Mhmm.
Aaron Francis:But it's been a while. I don't know. Jennifer thinks she gave me a bunch of, like, hippie dippie woo woo, you know, vitamins and stuff, and I took them on an empty stomach. And she was like, oh, yeah. You should just do that.
Aaron Francis:And I'm like, well, you should have told me that. Like, they're just hand me pills and expect me not to take them.
Ian Landsman:Right.
Aaron Francis:She thinks that it just upset my stomach and I vomed. But praise be, it was only one set and not an entire night of vomiting. So who knows? But it was not That
Ian Landsman:seems likely. I think that seems likely. That those things can be hard on your stomach. Yeah. I don't I do too much of the vitamins because it's like it's totally unregulated.
Ian Landsman:I don't know. The whole thing is, like, very hand wavy to me.
Aaron Francis:One of them she she's given me is oregano, and so I got the oregano burps for, like, an hour after. I'm like, what are you you doing with oregano? I do well, how's that gonna help me? Rub vanilla on my toes. That'll do the same thing, but I
Ian Landsman:don't know. So okay. So it could be the vitamins. Yeah. I mean, we actually have had we didn't even talk about this in the beginning because we jumped right into wire live, but everybody's sick in my house.
Ian Landsman:They're all sick.
Aaron Francis:Of course.
Ian Landsman:Everybody's got, like, flu like symptoms, whatever. I'm somehow don't have it, but I always get it last, so I assume I'll be getting it shortly. Mhmm. So you got this, like, cloud over your head where you just know you're gonna be out of commission here by the end of the week. But and but the my daughter had it first, and her good friend had it before her, and she had throwing up with it.
Ian Landsman:So we are very happy that we don't have the throwing up version. So if you were sick for a while, but I would think you woulda had that early on getting sick, not, like, towards the end. So yeah. Okay. Well, you did you did have some puke.
Ian Landsman:It's been a been a big couple weeks here. You got a lot going on.
Aaron Francis:Got a lot going on, man. Got a lot going on.
Ian Landsman:At least one time. Yeah.
Aaron Francis:We're on the up and up. Things are looking good. The clouds are clearing. I think we're doing okay.
Ian Landsman:Alright. We're ending on optimistic note. That's right. Things are going forward. I like it.
Ian Landsman:We you should larval new something maybe. Just cleanse the system further. It's always fun
Aaron Francis:to do that. I'm happy for you, but I'm not doing that.
Ian Landsman:Oh, it's so good. So good. I I actually had some other idea that Laravel new, but I was like, I can't have another different idea going. It's just there's no time for that. No.
Ian Landsman:No. Not doing that. But I just I just Laravel new the same project over and over. That's my point.
Aaron Francis:Yeah. Clearly.
Ian Landsman:Alright. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, sponsors. Thank you, listeners. Sorry.
Ian Landsman:We missed a week for you, but I think I think we made up for it. Sponsor the show. Got a new sponsor this month. It's great. We need more new sponsors.
Aaron Francis:Then you never know you never know what sweet hangs we'll throw in the middle of of the month, and you'll get your money's worth on on a sweet hang.
Ian Landsman:Exactly. Everybody got their right amount of shows this month. You know? We we provided. Don't worry about that.
Aaron Francis:And Jeffrey brought the views, so they maybe even got they got more impressions.
Ian Landsman:They got bonus bonus views. So That's right. Mostlytechnical.com. Subscribe, all the stuff, sponsor. Thanks, everybody, and we will be back next week.
Ian Landsman:Talk to later.
Aaron Francis:See you.
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